David…could be that all of her net mineral acres are not part of either of the two ‘units’ with the Kaiser Francis wells. What do the division orders for those wells look like; they will specify unit acres. She may have only leased to a certain depth…releasing all below and above. If you cannot find her leases…go to the county recorder…they have all of this documented. Obviously, another company will not lease what they do not deem available. Also go to the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission web site…you can locate each well and obtain related documents that may be helpful. Best -
david fancourt agee said:
my 88 year old mother is being asked to lease her mineral rights in moffatt county in craig, though they are already leased by Kaiser Francis Oil. Is there anything she can do to sub-lease the areas these other oil companies are interested in leasing with a nice bonus per acre and a 16 percent royalty? Sorry, I'm not an oil expert or gas expert. She currently has two working wells on her property but these other oil companies seem to think there is much more available that they are willing to speculate upon. What does one do? Thanks so much, David Fancourt Agee
Hi again - What happened in my case is that I received notification that the company who had leased my mineral interests filed for bankruptcy back a few years ago and since then I have not heard boo from anyone. I was hoping that after the bankruptcy matter was completed, I would be hearing from other possible interested parties to pick up my interests and it was back in December that M&L Land Services on behalf of Swepi which is a division of Shell, proposed to me the purported Paid-Up Lease for signature along with a bank note for $40,000 for 3 years with an option to continue for another 2 years for another $40,000 all contigent on their title search to which they requested a 2 month period with which to do so. So after waiting the full two months, they discovered that my units were in the Sombrero Unit (?) and therefore, could not lease my interests. It is now another two months waiting to get out from under their act of recording the proposed lease and here I am waiting to obtain the document that will release me from their lease so I can proceed with a potential other interested party to lease out my mineral interests. I am at the point of involving a lawyer into the mix to obtain resolve and their latest response is that the paperwork will be forthwith very soon. So, here I sit frustrated, waiting for the release, one of which I had made up and provided to them but they are not interested in utilizing mine. So there you have it. My interests were not subleased at any time that I know of. Please keep in touch as any additional help is so appreciated!
Dianne said:
Jamie Velsor said:
Thanks so much, George, for that information. I have been held hostage by M&L Land Services, Swepi and Shell because they recorded the Paid-Up Lease when my signature was a photo-copy, not an actual penned signing. The original documents were being held by my bank pending receipt of any monies paid as rent but due to the title search, they learned that my interests were not available to them. So now here I sit awaiting for about 2 months, after which I waited 2 months for their title search, for a signed Release form to get out from under the what I call, bogus lease, that was submitted for recordation. I have communicated to M&L that my lawyer is going to write so it was just week that I was told the Release is forthcoming soon. When I ask for contact information for my attorney to use, they never provide it and just tell me that the form is being submitted for Shell to sign and could be in a week or so. I've had it with them, so I will unleash my lawyer upon them if I do not receive the proper paperwork this week. PLEASE BEWARE... I mean you should know what you own and how many acres, etc. so their provisions, I believe, are unnecessary and anyone should get at least a payment in good faith, or held in escrow or whatever. Please be so very careful... and again, all this interaction in this forum is so helpful...
Jamie, I hope the company that has your oil interests tied up has been notified that Shell double leased them because you didn't realize they were already accounted for. If I recall from an earlier post, the BLM has your interests already? I would also find out who the CEO of Shell is, write him a letter explaining the problem so that you will have documentation. I had to do that with Apache Corporation when I was getting nowhere over a problem I was having with not receiving royalties in Texas. I had recorded over an hours' worth orf run-around conversations from the company peons who were always never available to take calls or return my calls either. Let me tell you, when the president of a company received my letter, the people involved really acted fast in to resolve my issue. I avoided getting my attorney involved.
Ms. Velsor, I had a similar situation, where I had a lease recorded but was not paid. Patience did me little good. In the end I had to call the oil co and explain that I finally had my lawyers full attention and I would have to turn them loose as you say, or I would be put back on the back burner. I also mentioned words to the effect of slander of title and recovery of lawyers fees. The oil co had the release drawn up and sitting around for 2 months before they finally executed it and sent me my duplicate original. I think they would have never executed the release without a prompting with consequences. After all there is no downside to continuing to hold your lease at no cost if you will not file suit. They could probably even use your acres as collateral if they desire, because nobody else knows the lease isn’t valid. Please consider turning your lawyer loose also because it sometimes takes them time to ramp up to actual action, but you should get your lawyer to write the letter demanding release immediately. Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Hi and thanks so much for your assistance. What I don’t understand is what is to be gained when landmen companies and associated ones conducted business in this manner? It has certainly left a bad taste in my mouth and the “trust me” offerings without any credence. I am sorry to hear that you had a similiar experience and wish I had not ever gotten involved. Again, I should have paid attention to that little voice… Thanks for all, Jamie
r w kennedy said:
Ms. Velsor, I had a similar situation, where I had a lease recorded but was not paid. Patience did me little good. In the end I had to call the oil co and explain that I finally had my lawyers full attention and I would have to turn them loose as you say, or I would be put back on the back burner. I also mentioned words to the effect of slander of title and recovery of lawyers fees. The oil co had the release drawn up and sitting around for 2 months before they finally executed it and sent me my duplicate original. I think they would have never executed the release without a prompting with consequences. After all there is no downside to continuing to hold your lease at no cost if you will not file suit. They could probably even use your acres as collateral if they desire, because nobody else knows the lease isn't valid. Please consider turning your lawyer loose also because it sometimes takes them time to ramp up to actual action, but you should get your lawyer to write the letter demanding release immediately. Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Ms. Velsor, I think it is a form of OPM, which stands for other peoples money. In other words they want to get a comittment from you, which has value for no money involved. Your commitment to lease for a specified consideration has value, they can keep it or shop it around to see how much they can sell it for. If they can sell it at a profit then they pay you and collect that profit, that is over and above what they pay you. They may keep a 1% or 2% royalty interest if they leased you for 16% and they can peddle your lease for 18%. All with no out of pocket expenses beyond postage and the recording fee involved. Value of a lease can change dramatically in the space of a few months to a year. Many mineral owners would accept payment ( finally ) and be glad to get it after a year, thinking at least it’s finally over and they got paid. It may not occour to them that the value of their lease could have gone up by hundreds of dollars per acre and 1% to 4% in royalty in the time between when the up front payment was due and when it is actually paid. I think the best policy is not to let the executed lease leave your controll until you have certified funds. If by chance someone has your executed lease and recorded it without paying you, I think immediate remedial action is required, engage a lawyer if necessary. You should also seek some lease offers. You may need some refusals on the grounds that there is a lease recorded to recover damages. Do not let them sit on your lease without paying you. I really hope things turn out well for you. RWK
Jamie-
You should make sure your acreage is really in the Sombrero Unit. M & J Land services told us that our acreage was in a unit also. I had the legal description of the unit to show them it was just outside the unit. These guys make a lot of mistakes which just delays the payment of the lease.
Wow, thanks so very much for your expert scenario which has given me more insight to the inner workings of this industry. I do have one potential party that is interested in leasing from me once I get out from under the current situation I find myself in. Years back, my grandmother had a landman who watched out for her best interests to some degree and made negotiating, etc. so much easier. Your time and knowledge is so appreciated and have learned a hard lesson in this incident. Thank you for corresponding…
r w kennedy said:
Ms. Velsor, I think it is a form of OPM, which stands for other peoples money. In other words they want to get a comittment from you, which has value for no money involved. Your commitment to lease for a specified consideration has value, they can keep it or shop it around to see how much they can sell it for. If they can sell it at a profit then they pay you and collect that profit, that is over and above what they pay you. They may keep a 1% or 2% royalty interest if they leased you for 16% and they can peddle your lease for 18%. All with no out of pocket expenses beyond postage and the recording fee involved. Value of a lease can change dramatically in the space of a few months to a year. Many mineral owners would accept payment ( finally ) and be glad to get it after a year, thinking at least it's finally over and they got paid. It may not occour to them that the value of their lease could have gone up by hundreds of dollars per acre and 1% to 4% in royalty in the time between when the up front payment was due and when it is actually paid. I think the best policy is not to let the executed lease leave your controll until you have certified funds. If by chance someone has your executed lease and recorded it without paying you, I think immediate remedial action is required, engage a lawyer if necessary. You should also seek some lease offers. You may need some refusals on the grounds that there is a lease recorded to recover damages. Do not let them sit on your lease without paying you. I really hope things turn out well for you. RWK
I recently received an unsolicited 5 yr. lease offer from Yates Petroleum Corp. on mineral rights (40 net acres) I own in Moffat County in T9N R92W at $50/acre. Anybody have any information on the interest /activity in that area and whether the $50 is reasonable or not. Thanks.
Does anyone know if mineral rights are leased to one company they can be sub-leased to another company who wants to drill on that area? My mother is being bombarded by diffferent oil companies but she has lease with Kaiser Francis who is not doing anything with the land the other company wants to drill on. thank you david ageee
Unless the lease expressly forbids it the the lessee can trade, sell or assign a lease to someone else. Kaiser Francis may be waiting to see where the value will peak. No sense being hasty when the price is rising.
My family has 324 acres in T7 R89W, which I believe is East of yours, but still in the "neighborhood". $50 is a common starting point, but you should be able to get considerably more. A lot of the mineral rights in that area are in the $250 per acre range.
Good luck.
Joseph Thomasson said:
I recently received an unsolicited 5 yr. lease offer from Yates Petroleum Corp. on mineral rights (40 net acres) I own in Moffat County in T9N R92W at $50/acre. Anybody have any information on the interest /activity in that area and whether the $50 is reasonable or not. Thanks.
Thank you. I have a copy of the lease and cannot make sense out of it at all, legalese written in the 1950’s. I do believe we can lease the unused mineral rights to another company. I need someone to review the lease.
r w kennedy said:
Unless the lease expressly forbids it the the lessee can trade, sell or assign a lease to someone else. Kaiser Francis may be waiting to see where the value will peak. No sense being hasty when the price is rising.
Tim,
Have you ended up leasing? If not I just signed a lease with very favorable terms. If interested I xan get you connected with my contact.
Tim Byerley said:
My family has 324 acres in T7 R89W, which I believe is East of yours, but still in the "neighborhood". $50 is a common starting point, but you should be able to get considerably more. A lot of the mineral rights in that area are in the $250 per acre range.
Good luck.
Joseph Thomasson said:
I recently received an unsolicited 5 yr. lease offer from Yates Petroleum Corp. on mineral rights (40 net acres) I own in Moffat County in T9N R92W at $50/acre. Anybody have any information on the interest /activity in that area and whether the $50 is reasonable or not. Thanks.
Interested in knowing who you took a lease with and what terms? Thanks in advance
M A Miller said:
Tim,
Have you ended up leasing? If not I just signed a lease with very favorable terms. If interested I xan get you connected with my contact.
Tim Byerley said:
My family has 324 acres in T7 R89W, which I believe is East of yours, but still in the "neighborhood". $50 is a common starting point, but you should be able to get considerably more. A lot of the mineral rights in that area are in the $250 per acre range.
Good luck.
Joseph Thomasson said:
I recently received an unsolicited 5 yr. lease offer from Yates Petroleum Corp. on mineral rights (40 net acres) I own in Moffat County in T9N R92W at $50/acre. Anybody have any information on the interest /activity in that area and whether the $50 is reasonable or not. Thanks.
I also have not yet taken a lease and would be interested in who you signed with and what the terms were. Thanks.
M A Miller said:
Tim,
Have you ended up leasing? If not I just signed a lease with very favorable terms. If interested I xan get you connected with my contact.
Tim Byerley said:
My family has 324 acres in T7 R89W, which I believe is East of yours, but still in the "neighborhood". $50 is a common starting point, but you should be able to get considerably more. A lot of the mineral rights in that area are in the $250 per acre range.
Good luck.
Joseph Thomasson said:
I recently received an unsolicited 5 yr. lease offer from Yates Petroleum Corp. on mineral rights (40 net acres) I own in Moffat County in T9N R92W at $50/acre. Anybody have any information on the interest /activity in that area and whether the $50 is reasonable or not. Thanks.
kaiser francis offered my mother $13000 for 120 acres for five years, we don’tknow if that is fair or not
Joseph Thomasson said:
I also have not yet taken a lease and would be interested in who you signed with and what the terms were. Thanks.
M A Miller said:
Tim,
Have you ended up leasing? If not I just signed a lease with very favorable terms. If interested I xan get you connected with my contact.
Tim Byerley said:
My family has 324 acres in T7 R89W, which I believe is East of yours, but still in the "neighborhood". $50 is a common starting point, but you should be able to get considerably more. A lot of the mineral rights in that area are in the $250 per acre range.
Good luck.
Joseph Thomasson said:
I recently received an unsolicited 5 yr. lease offer from Yates Petroleum Corp. on mineral rights (40 net acres) I own in Moffat County in T9N R92W at $50/acre. Anybody have any information on the interest /activity in that area and whether the $50 is reasonable or not. Thanks.
Our family signed a lease with CoreLand Resources. From what I have heard and read, it really depends on where the property is located and how much the property means to the company wanting to lease. For example, some areas require a deeper well to be drilled to find the oil, while in other areas it is closer to the surface, so the well doesn't have to go as deep. A well might cost from $2 million to $5 miilion, so the depth of the oil is very important.
Also, if your area is say in the "middle" of other leased property, they may be willing to pay more to get it all leased. On the other hand, if the surrounding property is already leased to another company, they may not have enough leased to drill, so the offer might be less.
As I said earlier, I have seen offers from $50 to $300 per acre in Moffat County. I have seen royalties from 15% to 18%, so it is hard to determine the exact "value" of your specific property. The "value" is whatever the leasing company is willing to pay for it, but I would suggest that something in the area of $150-$175 per acre, with a 16% royalty is probably about average. Others in this forum that have property closer to you than ours may be able to give you a better idea.
I don't know if CoreLand would be interested in your property, but I can certainly give you their contact information if you like. This forum also has other contacts from numerous bloggers.
Hope this helps.
Tim
david fancourt agee said:
kaiser francis offered my mother $13000 for 120 acres for five years, we don'tknow if that is fair or not
Joseph Thomasson said:
I also have not yet taken a lease and would be interested in who you signed with and what the terms were. Thanks.
M A Miller said:
Tim,
Have you ended up leasing? If not I just signed a lease with very favorable terms. If interested I xan get you connected with my contact.
Tim Byerley said:
My family has 324 acres in T7 R89W, which I believe is East of yours, but still in the "neighborhood". $50 is a common starting point, but you should be able to get considerably more. A lot of the mineral rights in that area are in the $250 per acre range.
Good luck.
Joseph Thomasson said:
I recently received an unsolicited 5 yr. lease offer from Yates Petroleum Corp. on mineral rights (40 net acres) I own in Moffat County in T9N R92W at $50/acre. Anybody have any information on the interest /activity in that area and whether the $50 is reasonable or not. Thanks.
the land that coreland wishes to lease is surrounded by land they already have rights to. They want the complete section and my 88 year old mother has not yet leased it to coreland.
Thank you Tim for the information. I would be interested in your contact information. We don't know until we ask.
It seems that there's a lot of shenanigans going on with some companies, and I need to research all avenues for my family.
Thank you.