Please take the politics to another comment forum and leave this one for technical information and leasing for Logan county.
Ok, any body heard of this? The title examiner placed a title requirement no. 20 on my interest they want Chisholm trail farm credit (lean holder of this particular acreage) to send them a directive stating that we can receive all revenue, or have the bank sign the division order, ummm I don’t think I will do either, but any advice would be appreciated ( maybe someone has bumped into this before.) # think it may be time to call the oil and has attorney.
Todd,
This is fairly norm if you have a mortgage on the property. Some oil companies want the right to keep the leases in case they foreclose. I would ask your lender for a subordination form to sent to the oil company. Most mortgage companies will do it if your are a good customer. I don’t think you need an attorney at the point.
Ok thanks Martha, Myranda, and virginia I told the lean holder they needed to call Devon and resolve the issue with paper work so I’ll sit back and take this road for awhile see where it gets me. This raises another question though maybe u can answer myranda or Martha say I was to default on the property why would this affect minerals? they would repo surface right? In my mind the oil company should go right on paying me for minerals unless my lean does not specify surface only correct? Thanks
Todd
Unless your minerals are excluded from the actual mortgage document, that would not be the case. I would have to see the actual note, but it sounds like you mortgaged the minerals and surface.
If you want this resolved quickly, you don’t want to rely on your bank getting in touch with Devon, because they have no obligation. In fact, they (lien holder) could flat out tell you no.
You need to obtain the Subordination Agreement from the Devon landman, and take it, or send it to your the mortgage department at the institution and have it executed by the head of that department.
I am sure this is frustrating, but it is absolutely standard practice.
Todd,
Things are real confusing nowadays. Land man used to take care of business, nowadays company expect them to do 10 times more work, so the mineral owner is on their own. Next time you leave a message for Devon, state what time you will be available to receive their call and tell them to call within 2 days. I have driven for at least 7 hours to get to oil companies and OCC in order to get things done. Once you do get your checks, look at it real close. They have new ways of getting deductions when your lease said they can’t take deduction. It’s now a 3rd parties taking the deduction. Can’t do that either. So, another fight on hand. It sure gets old. Hope you will be able to buy more land and cattle. I don’t think I will be buying at $600,000 per 160 with no minerals and cattle need feed, no rain, no feed. Plus, if you don’t make it off the farm, you can’t deduct it. Todd, you will live through this and it won’t turn you hair gray till the next well. Good Luck.
Lol no doubt virginia no more land for 600.00 an acre. Land has gone up just a little in the last 15 years especially around mulhall OK. good and bad I guess the minerals I bought years back are going to maybe pay now ( the previous surface/mineral owners said there was no oil they checked into it well u never know what new technology might bring and the surface investments have soared maybe it’s time to sell!! Surface that is, problem is I let my self get attached to the land. Think I’ll just hand it down to my kids at this rate of property value increases I don’t think they will be able to afford any for themselves when that day comes. Think I will keep investing in land cause god isn’t going to be making anymore, I think in this area if you spend 200-250,000 on 80 acres which is the going rate in my area these days for surface you could sell in 10 years and make a nice profit. Oh and my hair is already gray but if I could just keep it that’s the next question lol thanks for your help virginia.
Todd, Oil and gas development has increased the value of your property and that increase is of benefit to your lienholder. Sometimes, as a condition to the subordination, the lienholder can require that all royalty payments from oil and gas lease be assigned to them (the lienholder) and applied to your debt that is secured by their lien. You don’t want this condition to occur and the legal wording of a subordination can be very confusing, so you it might be good to get the form from Devon and make sure such wording does not exist. It sounds like what Devon is trying to accomplish with the directive is making sure you get paid and not Chisholm.
Todd,
In order to split the mineral from the surface, you will need to have some legal papers file. Then the minerals will be in a different book at the county clerk office. It’s not a matter of telling someone you want to severance the mineral from the property. I bet the loan company didn’t severance the minerals and that is what Devon is trying to clear up. Some of Devon attorney’s a little over board on their rules, but it’s good in the long run.
Yes that is my understanding I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who’s dad is or was a land man and that is what he said he also said not a real big deal I think I’m just going to get all that done first rather than do this how Devon requested, that way it’s taken care of or the future. I didn’t think to ask about time frame of signing division order and what consequences there are if I don’t have signed and turned in by a certain time. My point with the financing is the current bank will need to go along with this and release minerals as collateral, if they choose not to I will get the papers filed bring the mineral deed up then I will move to another lender, but I’m also thinking about just paying off, the current bank really doesn’t want me to do that we’ve had good relations over the years and that doesn’t benefit them either. So it’s really up to them what I do, but I’m going to get it taken care of now.
Virginia, that is not correct. All books are generally indexed so to say “the minerals will be in a different book at the county clerk office” might be technically right, but those minerals are still subject to an existing lien, being the mortgage, filed beforehand. If he did this, he would likely be in violation of the terms of his mortgage which could result in acceleration of the mortgage or default.
Todd, The easiest way to settle all of this is just to have your bank execute a subordination agreement and send it it Devon. Problem solved.
The next route would be to have your financial institute file a disclaimer, notice, or a corrected mortgage that specifies that the minerals were never intended to be included in the mortgage. Then, I would deed those minerals to an LLC or a trust so this is never an issue down the road, although it’s likely this interest will be HBP for the foreseeable future.
As far as the division order, there are no consequences for not returning it other than you not receiving your royalty payments.
I used to enjoy reading good info on this site
I completely understand and agree, M. Barnes.
True, it may be tougher to drill on public land thus making our privately owned minerals more desirable, but I think it falls under the category of " it’s an ill wind, that blows no good".
Todd, why is Chisholm Trail Farm Credit a lean holder? Do you own the surface and minerals and have some type of mortgage or loan with them?
Todd, A subordination agreement protects the O/G operator (lessee) against losing the lease in the event the mortgage company repossesses property. Sometimes the operator will pay for the subordination agreement since it protects them.
Ron, I for one am sick of putting up with your meaningless nonsense and if I recall correctly there was a much more intellectual person on here that was banned for joining in to express her political views some time back. More importantly, most could care less what you think about Obama or the oil industry for that matter and can tell your just blowing smoke, on a daily basis! I’m certain this site wasn’t set up for your political or personal rants and “YOU” should be made to follow the same rules as the rest of us do!!
Todd
Any operator would require a subordination agreement from the lien holder before you are placed on pay status. It’s standard practice.
Which institution is your mortgage through?
Todd, Not sure this will help, but in case T.S. Dudley landmen handled your lease for Devon: my family learned that Dudley folks busted their behinds to get everything right and tight for us. They do not want to lose Devon’s business/goodwill.
Lordan Murray–this is Cathy’s other half–if you have returned the division order and you think you have clear title, how long can the oil producer, Slawson in this case, not pay you? They have been selling oil from the Ruffed Grouse in 20-17-3 for 10 months and we haven’t received any checks yet. Catherine was in the books in Logan Co. as a mineral owner with a known address when they wanted to drill but now they say she didn’t have a clear titile and we have sent all docs. and affidavids they have asked for and we still haven’t gotten a royalty payment Evidently we wasted our time and money having her Mothers will probated and her sisters quit claim deed filed and registered back in the 70’s Our problems haven’t been as complex as Todd’s but are as flusterating. Is there a law as to how long they have to pay, or does the oil producers and their lawyers have all the control on these matters and it would be a waste of time to fight them?