I don't know about that. I think a landman would have told me to lease on my acres in Dunn county and I wouldn't be about to have a working interest in a very good well.
Seward Anderson said:
I forsee great disappointment followed closely by anger. Avail yourselves of the services of a competent professional landman.
r w kennedy said:Ted may have found what he needed and just moved on, it happens.
Hey everyone!!! I'm back.......I left Scobey and took my other week off in VEGAS! Back home and back to work today. I still have not signed, but I learned a tremendous amount while I was in Scobey. Shale has big backing and big plans. I actually met the majority shareholder, Sid Greehey. You can google him and and find out all you need to. Sam Tallis was also there and they took me out to the location of my minerals and then we ate at a restaurant called the Silver Slipper- get the Slipper Chicken, very good! Sid is a good family guy and I trust him and the intentions of Shale. Sam is a really good guy also. I can tell they both have integrity and both these gentlemen have alot of experience. These are the guys in charge of that company and I could tell they are not full of you know what. I'm from New Jersey and I'm an expert at detecting BS. I also believe in the backing and their overall plan. I will probably sign with Shale UNLESS another company operating in Daniels County can show me they have the kind of backing like Sid Greehey and Sam Tallis. That is the name of the game. The greater the backing the better your probabilities of getting drilled. My concern with these other companies is that there is no proof of backing. I learned that when a company with backing comes in, they force out the competition by demanding that their contractors (fracking companies, etc...) deal only with them. The smaller companies then cannot get the necessary ancillary services to drill, much less a "rig". Very interesting cut-throat business this is. It all boils down to backing. I will write more later about my visits with the Shale people. For now, suffice it to say, they do have the backing and they are going to drill, however, I want to see if another company has better backing and can they prove it to me. Gotta crash for work. The adventure is partially over.
Good to hear from you Ted! Welcome back and we look forward to hearing more about your journey. Sounds good what you have learned and shared so far. Good work. Hopefully you did so "well" in vegas it really doesn't matter to you any more what happens with minerals and drilling....lol
Wilson
Ted Rothstein said:
Hey everyone!!! I'm back.......I left Scobey and took my other week off in VEGAS! Back home and back to work today. I still have not signed, but I learned a tremendous amount while I was in Scobey. Shale has big backing and big plans. I actually met the majority shareholder, Sid Greehey. You can google him and and find out all you need to. Sid took me out to the location of my minerals and then we ate at a restaurant called the Silver Slipper- get the Slipper Chicken, very good! Sid is a good family guy and I trust him and the intentions of Shale. I also believe in the backing and their overall plan. I will probably sign with Shale UNLESS another company operating in Daniels County can show me they have the kind of backing like Sid Greehey. That is the name of the game. The greater the backing the better your probabilities of getting drilled. My concern with these other companies is that there is no proof of backing. I learned that when a company with backing comes in, they force out the competition by demanding that their contractors (fracking companies, etc...) deal only with them. The smaller companies then cannot get the necessary ancillary services to drill, much less a "rig". Very interesting cut-throat business this is. It all boils down to backing. I will write more later about my visits with the Shale people. For now, suffice it to say, they do have the backing and they are going to drill, however, I want to see if another company has better backing and can they prove it to me. Gotta crash for work. The adventure is partially over.
How fortuitous that the TOP 2 guys were in Scobey Montana while you were there. What's the liklihood of the top 2 managers of Anadarko, Apache, EOG, Continental, U S Energy Group or any other E&P company being at a site during the leasing stage? I can't find any production numbers, Proven or unproven reserves, financial numbers, current rig count anywhere. The web site speaks mostly of Daniels County and the good deeds they have done and thank you's from the locals. With operation in every major formation, why so much attention on the website to one small county in North East Montana? I think you are entering the area of Paul Tillich's "leap of faith." I could be wrong, though.
Wilsontownship said:
Good to hear from you Ted! Welcome back and we look forward to hearing more about your journey. Sounds good what you have learned and shared so far. Good work. Hopefully you did so "well" in vegas it really doesn't matter to you any more what happens with minerals and drilling....lol
Wilson
Ted Rothstein said:Hey everyone!!! I'm back.......I left Scobey and took my other week off in VEGAS! Back home and back to work today. I still have not signed, but I learned a tremendous amount while I was in Scobey. Shale has big backing and big plans. I actually met the majority shareholder, Sid Greehey. You can google him and and find out all you need to. Sid took me out to the location of my minerals and then we ate at a restaurant called the Silver Slipper- get the Slipper Chicken, very good! Sid is a good family guy and I trust him and the intentions of Shale. I also believe in the backing and their overall plan. I will probably sign with Shale UNLESS another company operating in Daniels County can show me they have the kind of backing like Sid Greehey. That is the name of the game. The greater the backing the better your probabilities of getting drilled. My concern with these other companies is that there is no proof of backing. I learned that when a company with backing comes in, they force out the competition by demanding that their contractors (fracking companies, etc...) deal only with them. The smaller companies then cannot get the necessary ancillary services to drill, much less a "rig". Very interesting cut-throat business this is. It all boils down to backing. I will write more later about my visits with the Shale people. For now, suffice it to say, they do have the backing and they are going to drill, however, I want to see if another company has better backing and can they prove it to me. Gotta crash for work. The adventure is partially over.
You have a very good point here Mr. Anderson. Is there really so much work in that one county that one manager couldn't take care of it with a bunch of landmen under him ? I'd consider it a bad sign if they had nothing better to do than show me around and have lunch with me. I had the CEO of an oil company that recently borrowed $600,000,000 [ is that backing ? ] offer to meet with me about leasing my minerals, I declined because if he couldn't explain something over the phone, he wasn't going to charm me in person anyway.
Seward Anderson said:
How fortuitous that the TOP 2 guys were in Scobey Montana while you were there. What's the liklihood of the top 2 managers of Anadarko, Apache, EOG, Continental, U S Energy Group or any other E&P company being at a site during the leasing stage? I can't find any production numbers, Proven or unproven reserves, financial numbers, current rig count anywhere. The web site speaks mostly of Daniels County and the good deeds they have done and thank you's from the locals. With operation in every major formation, why so much attention on the website to one small county in North East Montana? I think you are entering the area of Paul Tillich's "leap of faith." I could be wrong, though.
Exactly!
r w kennedy said:
You have a very good point here Mr. Anderson. Is there really so much work in that one county that one manager couldn't take care of it with a bunch of landmen under him ? I'd consider it a bad sign if they had nothing better to do than show me around and have lunch with me. I had the CEO of an oil company that recently borrowed $600,000,000 [ is that backing ? ] offer to meet with me about leasing my minerals, I declined because if he couldn't explain something over the phone, he wasn't going to charm me in person anyway.
Seward Anderson said:How fortuitous that the TOP 2 guys were in Scobey Montana while you were there. What's the liklihood of the top 2 managers of Anadarko, Apache, EOG, Continental, U S Energy Group or any other E&P company being at a site during the leasing stage? I can't find any production numbers, Proven or unproven reserves, financial numbers, current rig count anywhere. The web site speaks mostly of Daniels County and the good deeds they have done and thank you's from the locals. With operation in every major formation, why so much attention on the website to one small county in North East Montana? I think you are entering the area of Paul Tillich's "leap of faith." I could be wrong, though.
Sounds to me like good business practices and customer service, I'm sure most of that will stop once a lease is signed. I would like one of those free i-pads they are giving away!!
Seward Anderson said:
Exactly!
r w kennedy said:You have a very good point here Mr. Anderson. Is there really so much work in that one county that one manager couldn't take care of it with a bunch of landmen under him ? I'd consider it a bad sign if they had nothing better to do than show me around and have lunch with me. I had the CEO of an oil company that recently borrowed $600,000,000 [ is that backing ? ] offer to meet with me about leasing my minerals, I declined because if he couldn't explain something over the phone, he wasn't going to charm me in person anyway.
Seward Anderson said:How fortuitous that the TOP 2 guys were in Scobey Montana while you were there. What's the liklihood of the top 2 managers of Anadarko, Apache, EOG, Continental, U S Energy Group or any other E&P company being at a site during the leasing stage? I can't find any production numbers, Proven or unproven reserves, financial numbers, current rig count anywhere. The web site speaks mostly of Daniels County and the good deeds they have done and thank you's from the locals. With operation in every major formation, why so much attention on the website to one small county in North East Montana? I think you are entering the area of Paul Tillich's "leap of faith." I could be wrong, though.
It's my understanding that Mr. Tallis and Mr. Greehey are in Scobey frequently. I was having a beer with the guy who owns the paper up there and he knows them. He said they go there every three weeks and stay a good week. I got lucky on that one. I know I would if I risked $40,000,000.00 I'd be there alot also. I think Greehey has a plane and there was a jet at that local airport at some point when I was there, but I did not think to ask. Anyway, I believe these guys are legitimate and have backing beyond Greehey. Something big is about to happen there. They wouldn't tell me who their big partner is, but said anyone would know the name. The biggest thing is, I want to be included in a drilling site now. I don't want to wait on a company to get ramped up to where Shale already is. Shale showed me their map and, as I think I previously stated, the courthouse confirmed they have leased an enormous amount. Shale claims 300,000, but I don't know how to confirm that. In any event, at some point Shale said they would stop leasing and unitize. I wonder when Shale will stop leasing? Maybe the thing to do is wait to sign and hopefully the price goes up, but if they stop leasing, I might not be included in their drilling project or put in a unit with them. That is why I continue looking for concrete evidence to rely on in making my decision on who to lease to. I did see in the local paper online that Shale Exploration, LLC filed for a drilling permit in Daniels County for four wells under the name Shale Bakken, LLC which is an affiliate of Shale Exploration, LLC. I think this is the best piece of evidence that Shale is the one to go with that I have seen so far. I did go out to the Ponderosa Bar quite a bit while I was there to do "research." While there, I did hear of two companies leasing called Montana Lease Holdings, LLC and Bakken Oil, LLC. Has anyone heard of them? Apparently, there was one guy working for them. His name was Looker or Lucker or something and met with and signed alot of people up there. I have not heard from him or these companies. Has anyone else?
Ted, the only way to 'ensure' a well is drilled is to write that stipulation into your lease. Though even this does not ensure a well will be drilled. Yet I've used this method to put some teeth into a promise to drill within the near future. In this example, say you signed a Five Year Lease effective on June 1, 2012 you'd provide them with 9, 12 or 16 months (pick one) from that date (note you'd also need to define "operations");
"If on or before XX-XX-2013, operations for the drilling of a well for oil or gas have not been commenced on the leased premises (or lands pooled therewith), then this lease shall terminate as to both parties."
Essentially drilling is out of our hands. Sometimes it is also out of the control of the Lessee (oil px declines, equipment shortage, financial contrainst). So in general I don't worry about it. You might consider the above approach. Otherwise, just select a Lessee whom you're comfortable with, strike the best deal you can on terms (both financial & lease language), then sit and see if they drilled during the term of your lease.
PS If they didn't swear you to secrecy, can you describe which areas of Daniels County they have leased (ie... Entire County, east half, north half, SW corner, etc...).
They just showed me a map where they had leased with a color showing what they had. It was all over place, just huge solid blocks of what they had leased all over the County. If you look at Scobey, which is pretty much in the center of the County, I'd like to be able to isolate what they had leased mostly, but I couldn't say because it was all over- literally North, South, East and West of Scobey and spreading out far beyond Scobey up to Canada and down to the Fort Peck Indian Reservation, on over to the County line to the West and to the County line to the East. It was all blocked up with checkered areas which needed to be filled in. I flat out said to them, how do I know you have what you claim leased and the guy there told me to point my finger to ANY of the areas they claimed to have leased on the map. I did, and he looked on his computer and then opened a cabinet and showed me a signed private lease with that legal description. To me, it's obvious what is going on when you go up there and actually talk to these people and look at their maps and really read their sincerity- these guys are going to drill it and they are the real deal. Like I said in some other posts on other forums in here, I'd like to give these other smaller outfits a chance, but when you go up there and see what I've seen, it really is a no brainer on this thing. I'm still wondering who the Lucker or Looker guy is with these smaller guys trying to lease people. I really get the impression that there are a bunch of people forming companies and crowding in there trying to get in on the deal. Does anyone know?
So how many drillin' rigs do they have?,................................. Hmmmmmmm just wonderin'
Ted Rothstein said:
They just showed me a map where they had leased with a color showing what they had. It was all over place, just huge solid blocks of what they had leased all over the County. If you look at Scobey, which is pretty much in the center of the County, I'd like to be able to isolate what they had leased mostly, but I couldn't say because it was all over- literally North, South, East and West of Scobey and spreading out far beyond Scobey up to Canada and down to the Fort Peck Indian Reservation, on over to the County line to the West and to the County line to the East. It was all blocked up with checkered areas which needed to be filled in. I flat out said to them, how do I know you have what you claim leased and the guy there told me to point my finger to ANY of the areas they claimed to have leased on the map. I did, and he looked on his computer and then opened a cabinet and showed me a signed private lease with that legal description. To me, it's obvious what is going on when you go up there and actually talk to these people and look at their maps and really read their sincerity- these guys are going to drill it and they are the real deal. Like I said in some other posts on other forums in here, I'd like to give these other smaller outfits a chance, but when you go up there and see what I've seen, it really is a no brainer on this thing. I'm still wondering who the Lucker or Looker guy is with these smaller guys trying to lease people. I really get the impression that there are a bunch of people forming companies and crowding in there trying to get in on the deal. Does anyone know?
From the State of Montana website it looks like they are starting with four, but they said five when I was up there. Maybe that is because of the demand for the rigs all over the place, not sure.
I looked at the misleading map on their website. The yellow is everywhere they had a lease, no matter how small, it does not indicate how much they control. The acres Shale claims to have leased are about 1/3 of the acres available and the map shows yellow over 2/3. I wonder how much they actually control ?
The map I saw showed a dark red color that indicated areas they had 100% ownership on. This is where it gets into the units and where I worry that I need to go ahead and sign because the areas they own 100% on is massive which tells me they are the driller. They told me that is where they will unitize first because they will not be buying flipped leases from these other start-up companies to unitize. That makes sense when you look at what Shale has leased on with over 100%. Literally, the dark red areas were thick all over the county which would explain the 300,000 plus acres they claim. I wish someone could go into the courthouse and actually prove that. The court house did tell me Shale has leased more than any other company "by far", but for all I know, the courthouse could be in cahoots with Shale.
Ted, I'm sure the courthouse folks told you the truth, though they're not tallying up the net acres they are commenting on the volume of recordings. If you (or anyone) wanted to spend a solid week there (in the courthouse) you could get a pretty close guess at how many acres Shale has leased. Anyone need a hobby? :)
I don't know Shale and at this point I can't judge if they'll be drilling or not. From what you've outlined it seems they intend to. Though as I've indicated before, I don't worry too much about that since as a mineral owner it is out of my control. If the area has promise Shale Exp., or someone else, will drill it. Although they appear to be the big dog in the county for now, they are still a small operator. So it is quite likely they'll need to entice a larger independent with some form of Joint Venture to generate the cash needed to properly explore a block of that size (300M acres). I may be wrong about this. Yet that is the most likely scenario.
If you do the math, 36 sections per township times 640 acres per section, I would say that conservatively there is 1.2 million acres at least in the county. 300,000 would be about 1/4 of 1.2 million and shales leases cover 2/3 or more of the county, so I would say that Shale does not have a huge monolithic block and may in fact be in contention in most places they do have leases. It's simple math, leases spread out over 2/3 of one county and parts of two others comprising less than 25% of total acreage in the county with the greatest number of leases, they can't have all of it sewed up. To have Shales assertion that they intend to drill to mean anything, you will have to be in one of the blocks they have sewed up. I think Shale would be doing well to have 51% interest in 1/3 of the spacings they are in. Shale puts out little facts that you can misinterpret. Like [paraphrasing] in Daniels county we are the largest leasholder in Daniels county. That does not mean that they are the largest leasholders in Daniels county, just the largest one with an office there. The largest holder of leases in Daniels county may be out of state or in another county. I love the careful wording. I have no axe to grind against Shale, but I think they are saying things in certain ways to lead you to a conclusion that may not necessarily be so. Shale isn't telling lies [ I can respect that ], just using phrasing to make things sound in their favor where it may not necessarily be so.
Kennedy...I could not disagree with you more and here is why. I met these people and they are not bsing. You can tell alot by meeting someone face to face, especially if you grew up in Jersey. I don't see that as careful wording. How else would you convey that information that Shale has the most acreage leased in Daniels County? These guys are straight shooters and not full of it.
Like I said, on the map, the 100% stuff was big. There was another color that represented the stuff they have a majority on and they mentioned forced pooling and unitizing where the mineral owner gets the same deal as the majority in the unit. I started to fog over when they talked about that, but the 51% stuff was big too. However, you can look at that County and that map, and if you believe it like I do, Shale is the dominant leaseholder in Daniels County.
Again with the smaller guys, there is no office and no real presence in Daniels County. The one guy was meeting people at the local bar to sign leases. I love a good bar, but I'm not signing a lease in a bar. Beyond that, I cannot find any information on these other companies that are allegedly leasing- just small websites and promises of backing to drill. I just see the backing with Shale (I met him). While it may take this other partner to drill all the acreage Shale has, I can see that Greehey has the cash to drill four or five wells, whatever that number turns out to be. It's all over the internet. However, A little website with mysterious backing and mysterious circumstances and some guy knocking on a door and signing people in bars does not sound like backing to me. I would love to see more to legitimize these smaller outfits like Bakken Oil, Bakken Energy and Montana Lease Holdings. To me they look like little piddly outfits trying to ride Shale's coat-tails, but I'd love to learn more about them- like who is their backing, if they have backing, and have they filed for a drilling permit like Shale. Give me something to chew on rather than a dinky website and no real presence.
Whatever, they can't have leases covering 2/3 of the county and have that many majorities with only 1/4 of the acres in the county. You can disagree with me all you want to but you cant change the fact of all those spread out leases dilutes how many solid blocks they have. The solid blocks lowers the number of spaces they have just over 50% in. You just can't have it both ways.
Ted, You are asking about Bakken Oil and Bakken Energy etc. On page 2 of this post/thread someone posted about this. It seems rather telling. I would suggest PM'ing this person and asking for further information and verification of what he is saying. Because if he is write the whole things takes another step toward smelling a little worse. There appears a lot here that doesn't really pass the smell test. I think there is enough reason to remain diligent and not get out your signing pen quite yet. Here is post from 6 weeks ago (page 2 on this thread):
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reply by John Backus on April 13, 2012 at 7:28am
Food for thought....
A family member talked to one of our neighbors in Montana who owns adjoining acreage in Daniels County.
This neighbors stated she was approached by Bakken Oil LLC to lease. Oddly.. the mailing address and phone
number was the exact same as Shale Exploration LLC in Scobey. It's no secret that Sam Tallis owns and operates
multiple companies such as this that all do the same thing. Our property is shared by my siblings and our cousins.
Our cousins signed with Shale Exploration on December 15 and has not seen any money to date.
Jack
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Keep investigating!
Wilson
Kennedy...I saw the map and talked to these guys. I'm not certain why you are so adamant that they are not legitimate. Do you have minerals in Daniels County? Did you lease to someone else and if so, who? Why did you go with who you went with if you did not lease with Shale?
That is interesting about the Bakken Oil stuff and the same address, but is there something to go on other than someone who said their neighbor was approached or something?
I tell you guys what....when I had dinner with Mr. Tallis and Mr. Greehey, they gave me their cell numbers. I'm going to call them tomorrow with some very pointed questions.