No division order or any contact from company on a producing well

Ownership and Title
21

I find it curious that Newfield "knew about" Robert's grandfather, but their title attorneys described Robert as a "stranger to title." "Stranger to title" calls to mind a person with no claim to the title whatsoever, such as an adverse possessor. But unless there is evidence that title would not have passed to Robert through the intestancies, he obviously has a "claim to the title" which he can assert in probate proceedings.

If this is the case, I think it would be misleading to call Robert a "stranger to title" simply because probate proceedings were lacking. Of course, I wouldn't pay him anything until the flaws in his title are properly corrected, but I couldn't honestly say that he didn't have a claim to the property. This makes me wonder whether Newfield's attorneys thought that Robert's title wasn't good enough to pay on (in which case an AOH would probably solve the problem), or if they felt that Robert didn't inherit any title whatsoever (meaning his grandfather or mother conveyed title to someone else).

22

Andrew said:

a prior probate of the deceased's estate - known or unknown - is irrelevant, other than the fact that it would render the AOH pointless.

Dave Quincy said:

It wouldn't be pointless if the will was never probated, or if the will wasn't probated within the required statutory period, or if the will was successfully attacked as being invalid.

I agree completely, and I made my statement assuming the probate was valid. "Pointless" probably wasn't the best word choice either because, as Dave pointed out, there may still be good reason to record an AOH even though a probate has been completed. It probably would have been better for me to say that a valid probate would render a subsequent AOH "without significant effect."

23

Last month I had a lease offer but they said I didn't have good chain of title of record and wouldn't pay so I sent them the probate of the individual on title with everything going to his wife my seller, the company still refused to lease because that tract was not specifically mentioned in the probate.

If there were any probates and this tract was in inventory the JE probably would have been recorded and indexed in the county records where the interest is but since none obviously were (and that is an assumption), why look for probates just do an AOH and at most you lose $13.

24

1st - You said "opened him or whoever signs the AOH to criminal prosecution for filing a false document in the public record! Great advice!" great advice," just where did I say record false documentation.

2nd - My 5th grade son could fill out an affidavit of heirship and I am certain he can do so with little problem and do it correctly, ta duh. Sorry it's so difficult for you.

3rd - There you go again assuming or making things up that are not true to fit your need as I never stated anything about liability and if you know how to read go back and look for the word liability in my post and you will not find the word, duh. I used the words "criminal charges" not "liability" learn how to read before making accusations. duh

4th - An AOH doesn't get into laws of descent and pretending it takes an attorney or higher education to fill one out is totally wrong. Also, scaring people by saying "But what exactly would you suggest this man do if he is not familiar with the laws of descent and distribution in the state where the minerals are located, just "wing" a document that could open him up to a criminal charge" was wrong of you. Making people believe they might be arrested by doing an AOH, total nonsense and very wrong of you. Everyone knows if you do something illegal you might be charged but why would someone even come up with such a comment like you did, I and most people wouldn't even conceive of criminal activity your suggesting. What's wrong with you.

Finally - I am not reading nor addressing you or your assumptions anymore in this discussion. Bye Bye

25

Sorry I have been missing from my own thread but I have been off the gird for a week and am on only briefly now. I have had my sister take over communication with Newfield and have not heard from her if they have said anything else. Until I hear from them that they won't change their opinion it's no sense thinking about the next step. Thanks for the input so far. After next week I will get back into it.

26

Filing a false affidavit in and of itself would never open anyone up to criminal prosecution. Mistakes are made in affidavits on a daily basis. They are only as good as the knowledge of the affiant. If it is later discovered that someone had a brother, and the affiant who gave the heirship affidavit is later informed of that fact, he would more than likely just reply, "Oh, I didn't know he had a brother." (That has happened to me personally, and I didn't think to walk across the hall to the D.A.'s office and try to get him prosecuted.) No one would come and take him to jail. That's absurd, and postings that suggest that should not be tolerated here. They are ridiculous.

The circumstances under which criminal liability may arise have already been explained.*

*It must be done knowingly and with an intent to defraud.

27

P.S. No one would typically file an affidavit for a great-uncle's heirship "not knowing whether it was true or false". No landman would ever seek out such an unqualified affiant as that.

If they believed, that to the best of their knowledge, that they were the only heir of the great-uncle, they would swear to that before a Notary Public, and state the same. Nothing criminal about that. (Even if it turned out that they weren't.)

If someone were to concede in advance that they "didn't know if it was true or false", then they would be a lousy candidate as an affiant to begin with.

If they knew that there were other heirs, and they knowingly filed the heirship affidavit stating that they were the only heir, then in that case, and that case only, would it be appropriate to discuss the possibility of criminal prosecution.

28

I would keep after them These smaller company’s are unbelievable. You never know how long they will even be around. we. Are on our 3rd company. It’s hard being patient especially when money is involved, I would hire a attorney sounds like they owe you back pay and no telling what else

29

I have a question. I don't know about OK but in Colorado I get a hint every year from the county treasurer that I have an official interest in my mineral rights. They want their property taxes from the owner (the owner). I would guess that someone is paying taxes on that acre(s) unless OK doesn't collect property taxes?

df

Dave Quincy said:

P.S. No one would typically file an affidavit for a great-uncle's heirship "not knowing whether it was true or false". No landman would ever seek out such an unqualified affiant as that.

If they believed, that to the best of their knowledge, that they were the only heir of the great-uncle, they would swear to that before a Notary Public, and state the same. Nothing criminal about that. (Even if it turned out that they weren't.)

If someone were to concede in advance that they "didn't know if it was true or false", then they would be a lousy candidate as an affiant to begin with.

If they knew that there were other heirs, and they knowingly filed the heirship affidavit stating that they were the only heir, then in that case, and that case only, would it be appropriate to discuss the possibility of criminal prosecution.

30

You are correct. Oklahoma does not collect property taxes on mineral rights.

31

I am the threads author. To review, while I leased the rights and got all spacing related court docs, and was lead to believe a well had been put in I never heard a peep from the company much less a check. One oddity is that we do not actually know how our names got attached to these mineral rights beyond that they were our grandfathers. We also leased them in the early 80's.

Anyway I assumed because of the price plunge in 11 that the well if started was not finished or put into production. Then I got a solicitation to buy the rights and when I responded was told by a land man two wells were producing. I then called and called and called the company, Newfield, and didn''t hear a thing except for a chat with a landman who confirmed 2 producing wells, then nothing again, then suddenly did hear back a few weeks ago when someone responded and have been extremely helpful.

They said we were strangers to title, I think is the term. My grandfather, mothers side, had the rights and they have his name and recognize those rights. He died in 1957, we don't know if he had a will or probate. My grandmother died after my mother, in 67, again not sure about will or probate. My father in 92, surely no will or probate.

So they contacted us today and sent for filling out; " Affidavits of Death and Heirship to legally determine the heirs". Which we will do but it sounds, tell me if I am wrong, that they seem quite willing to recognize our rights if we complete the affidavits to their satisfaction. I have not studied these as my sister got them and will proceed with their completion.

So it is looking at least semi good for us I think.

If anyone wants to blather about any of this feel free.

Bob

32

Robert,

If you sign the "Affidavits of Death and Heirship" purporting that you and your sister are the only heirs-at-law of your grandfather's mineral interest and then it turns out that you are not because you followed some of the irresponsible, unprofessional, ridiculous advice on this Forum and failed to locate a Probate that affected the chain of title, then you will have filed something in the public record that is FALSE.

In probably every state in this country, that is a criminal offense if it was done under certain circumstances. In my state, I believe that means that one knew or should have known that the facts sworn to were not true, regardless of whether or not one's intent was to defraud. I have no idea what the circumstances would be in Oklahoma. Would you be prosecuted for filing what later turned out to be a false AOH? Not likely, and I never said that doing so would automatically result in investigation, arrest, or prosecution in your specific case or any other case. I admit that there is a tiny chance that would happen, but nevertheless it could happen, based upon how Oklahoma's Penal Code is worded and based upon what side of the bed the local prosecutor woke up on that day. So why on Earth would you even want to take that chance? I reported somebody who had filed a false AOH to my local prosecutor, and he definitely was interested. So it does happen!

If you are willing to swear out and file AOHs claiming that you and your sister are the only heirs-at-law of that mineral interest, then yes, the company is likely to "recognize" your rights and start paying you. But again, what if something you filed in the public record turned out to be FALSE? Then you will have created a "cloud" on your title and potentially taken money that does not belong to you, not problems that I am guessing you either want or need.

So if you want to do the quickest, easiest, least expensive thing that will get you some money as fast as possible, and you don't care about any potential consequences, then by all means stop reading this, go sign the "Affidavits of Death and Heirship" right away, return them, and get on with your life! Otherwise, if you are a prudent, responsible individual to whom the thought of filing a potentially FALSE AOH is anathema, even if done so with good intentions and even if there is zero chance that you would be prosecuted, then consider the following steps BEFORE filing any AOHs in the public record:

(1) Check for a Last Will and Testament that was filed in a Probate Court for the Estates of your grandfather, grandmother, mother, or father. To do this, somebody would have to check with the Probate Clerk in as many as three places for each of the four Decedents: the County where the Decedent last lived, the County where the Decedent died, and the County where the Decedent owned any property. In most cases, all three of those places will be the same for each of the four Decedents. But do your best to search in other Counties if necessary to increase your comfort level of ascertaining the truth.

(2) For as many of the four names for which you do find a Probate that was not in Pittsburgh County, Oklahoma, obtain a certified copy of that Probate and file it in the Deed Records of Pittsburgh County, Oklahoma, if one was not already filed there back in the day.

(3) So now, for each of the four persons you should have either (a) a Probate filed in Pittsburgh County, Oklahoma, or (b) a Certified Copy of Probate filed in Pittsburgh County, Oklahoma, or (c) neither a Probate nor a Certified Copy of Probate filed in any of the three places you looked.

(4) For as many of the four names that fall into Category (a) or (b) above, obtain a photocopy of it and send it to the company that has your money. There is no need to complete an AOH for any of the four names that fall into Category (a) or (b) above.

(5) For as many of the four names that fall into Category (c) above, go ahead and complete the AOH, file it in the Deed Records of Pittsburgh County, Oklahoma, obtain a photocopy of the filed AOH, and send it to the company that has your money.

If you complete all of these steps, you should have created a solid chain of title between your grandfather and you and your sister, you will have "proven up" your ownership to the company so that they will no longer have any reason to withhold your royalties, and you will have minimized any future title issues that might have arisen from this heirship.

Good luck to you,

P. W.

33

I have filed affidavits with Pittsburgh county after making certain that none of the parties stating with my Grandfather , who was shown on country records as having the rights, had a will or probate done. I have done all this on the specific recommendation of the well operator. To be extra clear, we are the only living relatives of my Grandfather.


He had two brothers and they all inherited a total of 10 acres, meaning of course he had 3.333 acres. He had four grandchildren. Thus the 3.33/4=.83, the number that was always used as our interest. My second sister, unbelievably sold her rights to someone 4 years ago for about $1500. Good luck to them,. Or is it bad luck to the schmuck they in turn sold it to which was probably the case. Let's face it half the fracking mania is all about hawking mineral rights. The fourth grandchild was developmentally disabled and has died. We are not possibly screwing anyone and have no ulterior motive. I doubt this is going to add up to more than a few hundred bucks. If the company is willing to accept us as the rights holders so be it. Otherwise nobody gets it, but the state, eventually,I think.

I will follow up on if the company grants us the royalty payments or not. Over the years we had leased this two other times but I never investigated. When this surfaced I talked to the landman who filled me in on spacing and whole sections so my dreams of wealth evaporated. .83 acres is by my calculation worth .0002% of the gross. It's all been more in the manner of an interesting story to tell rather than money.

34

From what I understand, the state would only get 12.5% of the money, the oil company gets the rest so they don't really care who they pay, not to mention that oil companies ignore the state for the most part because the penalty for any wrongdoing was probably set shortly after horse and buggy days.

$100 to $250 is not a fine to an oil company anymore, it's the tip to the waitress at lunch.

I'm expecting the number of people the oil companies do not pay to skyrocket because the state will not make them pay and small mineral holders can't afford the lawsuit. I believe that before too long, only those who can afford the lawsuit will be paid.

35

Robert,

As a professional division order analyst, it infuriates me when I hear of an oil company refusing to return calls or emails to landowners. It's inexcusable. I realize your post is quite old, but if you are still having problems or encounter problems again in the future, call the main switchboard number for their Tulsa office at (918) 732-1736. You can ask to speak to the Division Order Supervisor to find out the name of their D/O analyst there assigned to handle Pittsburgh County properties.

Bear in mind: it's possible that Newfield no longer owns these wells, but the D/O analyst or supervisor should be able to give you the name of the company they sold them to and how to contact them, if they have been sold.

Good luck.

36

I had to resubmit the affidavits to the county and the company because the company demanded them in legal size. At any rate I have verbal confirmation that we will get payment. Appx two years of production I think. I'm not buying that Ferrari. I was told in the $900 range each for me any my sister. I assume with the age of the wells the money will be a minuscule trickle going forward.


I might chime in later with the well names when I have them to learn, out of curiosity sake, how one tracks the production and status of the wells and how in general producers go about minimizing lease payments.

One odd thing, the company my other sister sold the rights to still retains them. How dumb was that? To buy such dicey rights. She made the best deal. Over $1500 several years ago. I was sure they had sold them. They are out of luck now it seems, and why bother if they even could, to try and get their little sub $1000.

37

Don't be too hasty minimizing the value of your mineral rights in Pittsburg County. Many companies are maintaining and continuing to produce minimal-production wells because they have future plans to go back in and do some type of enhanced recovery operation. That could mean something as simple as a workover, or a plug-back to a shallower zone where a whole new reservoir is located, or it could mean horizontal drilling. A horizontal well recovers the greatest amount of production in the shortest period of time--which is why so many horizontal wells are "barn burners" for the first 4-6 months then fall off sharply after that.

Also, there is also a possibility that any one of the non-operating partners in the well(s) could be eyeing this prospect and making any one of these plans themselves, perhaps even for a DEEPER formation than the one currently producing. Don't ever rule out the possibility that at some point in the future, near or far, your mineral rights will produce a boatload of money for the owner. Exploration, drilling and recovery technologies are galloping right now and can only get faster.

38



Marsha Breazeale said:

Don't be too hasty minimizing the value of your mineral rights in Pittsburg County. Many companies are maintaining and continuing to produce minimal-production wells because they have future plans to go back in and do some type of enhanced recovery operation. That could mean something as simple as a workover, or a plug-back to a shallower zone where a whole new reservoir is located, or it could mean horizontal drilling. A horizontal well recovers the greatest amount of production in the shortest period of time--which is why so many horizontal wells are "barn burners" for the first 4-6 months then fall off sharply after that.

Also, there is also a possibility that any one of the non-operating partners in the well(s) could be eyeing this prospect and making any one of these plans themselves, perhaps even for a DEEPER formation than the one currently producing. Don't ever rule out the possibility that at some point in the future, near or far, your mineral rights will produce a boatload of money for the owner. Exploration, drilling and recovery technologies are galloping right now and can only get faster.

I had a vague understanding that after 10,000 feet that the mineral rights get complicated? Just curious.

39

I have the Transfer Order to sign from the Division Dept. I have a question about the Decimal Interest

My grandfathers rights, which I am claiming a portion of, was for 3.33 acres.

The Order gives his interest as .00065104

My probably ignorant math says different. I figured

His acreage/640 (a section) X .18 (3/16)

3.33/640 X .1875 = 000975585

Where is my mistake? Any help appreciated

40

I have the well names and would like to figure out how to track production. Not sure if it is OK to post that info here. Don't know why it wouldn't be but....

For years I have tried to use the OCC's database thing without success but now with the name thought it would work. I still get zero results. Any shorthand hints on what I might be doing wrong or if there is another way to track reported production?