I looked back through the entire thread and see no statement that I was trying to avoid legal fees. I am trying to figure out how to navigate some issues with minimum cost. Perhaps you have read the thread with a pro attorney bias? Or, perhaps you are saying if attorneys are involved there is no chance to minimize cost? Please take the last 2 questions as an attempt at humor.
In OK, when a person purchases property, they pay for a title opinion that reviews the title chain on the property and assures them they can take legal possession. With regards to royalty interests, it is my understanding that one of the reasons that it is complicated is that a person researching ownership has to review lots of documents of different types, including wills. If I am trying to sell my mineral rights, I certainly see that the equivalent of a title opinion is in order. Most of the offers I have received for my rights have offered to cover all costs related to title issues.
It seems to me that the wills on file in conjunction with the original royalty deed constitute a valid chain of ownership with respect to releasing funds from TUP or being added to pay lists by producers. I can also see that for a transfer of ownership (sale), there may need to be a court ruling that says something to the effect that the documents have been reviewed and this person is the certified owner and able to sell this mineral interest. The question in my mind is if there is some kind of limit to how many wills can be on file before this action is taken.
In one of the posts, you said:
“There is probate in TX from the ancestor to my wife and probate in OK from my wife to me which is also filed in TX.”
That led me (and others) to believe the Oklahoma interest was probated in Texas but not Oklahoma.
If you have probates in Oklahoma on Oklahoma property all down the line, you have no break in title.
The professionals on this forum are attempting to help you develop a plan that you originally stated using the conditions you set out. We offer general advice based upon your general, at best, information. You need to present your issues for examination to an experienced landman or attorney for a detailed assessment. After that is completed, then you can devise an estate plan based upon your risk tolerance.
There are no royalty deeds on Oklahoma property involved in this thread. The royalty deeds are in Texas and the person who owned them died In OK (there less than 4 days) and the will was probated in Texas because that is where the holdings are. That will left part of those holdings to my wife who died in OK and her will was probated in OK and an exemplified copy filed in the appropriate counties in Texas to satisfy the Texas Unclaimed Property and the OG producers. My question is why would the lack of a probated will in OK on a person who resided there less than 4 days and had no OK property to transfer constitute a break in the title chain in TX for the properties in question?
There is no doubt in my mind that “the professionals” on this site are trying to be helpful and for that I thank them. How do I determine who the professionals are when one party says lady bird and transfer on death are the same and another party says they are different?
In OK, a transfer on death is a document that can be filed at the court house for a minimal fee by anyone on a deed for property in their name. Upon death, the heir merely presents a death certificate to the clerk and the name on the deed is changed to the heir without a probate hearing.
From that perspective, it is confusing when advice is given that I need to have my “issues” examined by a landman or an attorney implying they have the same skills and authority.
I am not, at this time, devising an estate plan. I am trying to learn if TOD is handled like in OK or a different manner and if the underlying deed has to be in my name, and what action I would request of an attorney to obtain a deed in my name to replace the original royalty deed if that is even possible.
Have any of the professionals on here considered how difficult an out-of-stater may perceive the process of trying to find a suitable attorney or landman in Texas to handle small royalty interests?
My question is why would the lack of a probated will in OK on a person who resided there less than 4 days and had no OK property to transfer constitute a break in the title chain in TX for the properties in question?
There is no break in the title chain. Texas proceedings only apply to Texas property.
How do I determine who the professionals are when one party says lady bird and transfer on death are the same and another party says they are different?
There is a small technical difference, but for your purposes, it doesn’t affect you or won’t pertain to your situation.
People on this site have a lot of experience which they share with you to try to be helpful. They can provide suggestions and guidance. However, no one can provide a definitive opinion or give you legal advice or land title advice, without fully reviewing all documents because the exact wording of recorded documents matters. There are experienced attorneys and landmen listed on this site whom you can consult and they can tell you what to do.
This may help you to understand your issues. Probate is generally performed in the State of residence of the deceased not where they died. This can be confusing when you are dealing with property in more than one State. A Court in TX does not have jurisdiction over property in another State, so ancillary proceedings may be required in that other State dependent on that State’s requirements.
The TODs may differ from State to State. You seem to be wanting s person from this forum to give you advice as to the rules and Statutes as they relate to the potential effectiveness of the documents for your intended purposes. That requires legal advice based upon the desired goal and intent. A landman can do certain things related to title, but they may not provide legal advice since most States restrict that to an attorney licensed within that State. A landman may perform title research and highlight the perceived title defects; however, their curative options are limited. Depending on the level of work you require dictates which professional involvement is required.
This can be a difficult and confusing business for those that have recently acquired interests. Economics and timing influence many decisions some times for the better, but in many cases for the detriment. If you have a clear purpose such as TOD, then here are a some informational websites TX TODD - OK TOD to possibly move you to that goal.
I agree there are many people on this site who try to be helpful. And I appreciate each one. Thank you. I am not trying to obtain legal opinions or title advice from this site. I do my best to try to ask general questions where responders can provide information about issues to be aware of and options available. I frequently encounter answers that instead of saying something like “We have TOD in this state but it only applies to a deed in your name and that is an issue that can be resolved by a landman”, I get responses that say “oh that is much too complicated for you to understand - you need to hire a landman or an attorney.”
I don’t think either of the above quoted statements constitutes legal advice or title advice . The first response would constitute helpful info. The second constitutes talking down to people.
The legal nuances depend on the language in the underlying documents and no title attorney or landman will give you definitive advice without reviewing them. That is just a fact and is not patronizing. Moreover, state law, as interpreted by the courts, changes on a regular basis, in part because of very small differences in wording. Attorneys specialize in particular areas of the law, attending seminars, and reading new cases and statutes and research papers, to keep abreast of changes and be able to help clients. And of course, you can spend money and many hours doing all of that so that you can be an expert. Re-posting the same question will not get you to a final answer because no one has reviewed your documents. And there is a concern that some advice does not reflect current state case law. You have received lots of guidance and suggestions here and at this point you can take the risks associated with doing it yourself or pay for professional advice.