Yep. It was in there, just as I thought. I had faith in that attorney.
You would want to at least file a certified copy of the will in each county where he owned minerals, whether the inventory is complete or not.
:)
Dave Quincy said:
Yep. It was in there, just as I thought. I had faith in that attorney.
You would want to at least file a certified copy of the will in each county where he owned minerals, whether the inventory is complete or not.
Dave, because neither the will nor the decree itemized the minerals and cousin John had a lot of minerals and only a some of them coming to us, how do the counties know where to file it. Wouldnt there have to be a list and what went to whom somewhere?
There is the correct way that will satisfy all (emphasis on the word ALL) potential lessee's and then there is Dave's way, the only problem is Dave won't be one of those potential lessee's with the money. I have had a call from a lessee wanting to lease but stated there was a title issue that needed addressing prior to taking a lease with me, by the time I got it resolved they pulled out and I lost the bonus that would have been paid had I addressed all issues properly in the beginning rather than wait to see if the need ever arose. NOT ALL lessee's will lease a tract when there is not an exact legal description listed in a conveyance or order, some are not so picky. Some that will take a lease and pay a bonus will not pay royalties especially if they must pay large dollar amounts in royalties.
Hi Ann. I think we get into semantics and procedures now. Counties don't file anything unilaterally, or make a determination on what to file where. All counties do is accept instruments for filing if you have their filing fees. Usually the instrument that is being filed in a certain county, affects land or property situated in that county. If someone owns land or minerals in various counties, and has a will probated in their county of domicile, that probate is typically filed in every county where they own land or minerals - to give the title searcher notice of the title clearing function of probate (or who the owner left it to).
If the issue now has become "Where did Cousin John own minerals"? Well, that gets more complicated. You might have to hire someone to find them, talk to other family members, check county records, including tax rolls if they are producing. Get legal advice. If that is your question, it can be some work.
It may also be a Catch-22 type situation, but I'll let you think about that one.
Ann Cole said:
Dave, because neither the will nor the decree itemized the minerals and cousin John had a lot of minerals and only a some of them coming to us, how do the counties know where to file it. Wouldnt there have to be a list and what went to whom somewhere?
What Dave said is again not correct, it's false, as they (the county clerk) do determine whether to index under the tracts or under miscellaneous. Taxes rolls, you don't know what you are talking about. Dave it has been determined the interest is in fact in Oklahoma, not Texas and in Oklahoma they have no tax rolls for producing minerals.
Ann,
how is it separated who gets what if it doesn't give legal descriptions, by percentages?
That’s the exact question I’m asking. We have a list that Dad or someone else compiled but we are finding that it may not be complete and we have found a couple of mistakes. There has to be somewhere a filed document which delineates the minerals and who got what. Otherwise how would anyone know? If you’ve seen how many probate documents get filed in a simple probate surely somewhere there exists an inventory and how that inventory is divided. Cousin John was in the O&G business and had a lot of properties and a complex will. He had explicit instructions to the executor how his estate was to be divided. I will call the county of his domicile again next week to ask for copies of other filed documents. I only asked them for his final decree which I assumed would have an itemized list. A very well-known bank trust department was his executor and they “cannot locate” the probate file which they handled in 1976. We may have to make a trip to OK to do some research. There was obviously something, otherwise we would not be collecting some royalties on some old wells.
Catch 22! If you knew all of that you would be set, but you don't. I remember years ago, I was trying to locate a mineral owner that I had tracked to California. I tried to enlist the help of the state of California to find him. They mailed me a form. I needed his social security number, wife's maiden name, place and date of birth. Hell, if I knew of all of that, I wouldn't be looking for him. His last name was either Smith or Jones.
We ended up getting a receivership lease after testifying to those steps and efforts we took in an attempt to find him.
Ann Cole said:
That's the exact question I'm asking. We have a list that Dad or someone else compiled but we are finding that it may not be complete and we have found a couple of mistakes. There has to be somewhere a filed document which delineates the minerals and who got what. Otherwise how would anyone know? If you've seen how many probate documents get filed in a simple probate surely somewhere there exists an inventory and how that inventory is divided. Cousin John was in the O&G business and had a lot of properties and a complex will. He had explicit instructions to the executor how his estate was to be divided. I will call the county of his domicile again next week to ask for copies of other filed documents. I only asked them for his final decree which I assumed would have an itemized list. A very well-known bank trust department was his executor and they "cannot locate" the probate file which they handled in 1976. We may have to make a trip to OK to do some research. There was obviously something, otherwise we would not be collecting some royalties on some old wells.
If Testator bequeaths all of his minerals at the time of his death to A and B, but the Inventory does not list one of his mineral interests, that mineral interest still goes to A and B. However, if Testator does not make a specific bequest and leaves his entire Estate to A and B, the Inventory does not list one of his mineral interests (perhaps because there was no knowledge of his owning it), the Will leaves the Residuary Estate to C and D, the Probate case is closed, and then up pops this straggler mineral interest, then title would vest in C and D, NOT A and B. So it can be a very big deal! This exact scenario transpired with some minerals I researched. The devil is in the DETAILS! Facts and circumstances matter.
You are right on. We obtained the 1976 inventory of the probated estate and it was very large and very complicated. 18 months after the probate, someone went back to the probate judge to clarify the percentage interest of the heirs. there were 5 exhibits listing all his minerals from those he owned in Texas, to those held with a partner, to those held under a corporation name, to those held in a trust, and to those held outside the trust. For two lists (Texas-owned and partner-owned) it was very clear to whom they were bequeathed. For the remaining three lists of minerals it is unclear to me to whom they would go. Our grandmother was named to inherit 1/4 of the remaining estate. So to make a long story short we will make a trip to OK to research whether or not her name is in the title for those minerals for which there is ambiguity. I do not see how the clerk in each of the county offices could figure it out but someone would have had to make the decision. There were no other documents in the land and title file which delineated how these remaining minerals were divided. We know for certain however that our list of minerals is incomplete since we found her name in the unclaimed property website for royalties we did not know she owned.
To answer the initial question, it appears that the will and final order had a residuary clause. Under the residuary clause, all unknown, undiscovered or omitted property goes to the heirs. Unfortunately, this wouldn't be constructive notice because it won't be indexed against the tract indices of the properties not described. So, I would suggest you execute an affidavit describing the omitted descriptions, attach a certified copy of the final order and file it in the county clerk's records, to be indexed against the omitted descriptions in the indices, so that any landman checking the records can link the title chain together.
Your list of minerals is not necessarily incomplete since you found her name in the unclaimed property website, she might have acquired those royalties as her separate property either before marrying your grandfather or after he passed away. In other words, those royalties on that Web site might have had nothing to do with your grandfather's Estate.