Thanks for all the info, I am just learning about this process, doing my due dilligence so to speak. I am trying to figure out where to get plot maps for our mineral acres, I just have legal descriptions in Daniels and Roosevelt Counties, does any one have a hint on this?
Yes, they will if they really want your mineral acres. You can execute a lease [ sign and notorize ] make a copy of it and boldly mark it as a copy and return it to the landman/agent, when you get cash, you send them the original. The lessee will have the copy you sent them and would be able to sue the pants off you if you cashed the check and did not send the original. All the drafts I have ever seen have had all of the legal descriptions of the minerals to be leased [ drafts are a contract in themselves ] there is no reason they could not send you a check in the same format with the same information, except for the fact that the lessee would be just as committed as you were. They only send the drafts because they commit the mineral owner without committing the lessee. You should be able to escrow your lease with your bank when you present the draft for payment, but there is no guarantee that the bank won't make a mistake and forward your lease to the lessee ahead of time. I have also heard of people sending copies of the lease to the lessee that were not boldly marked copy and the county recorder recorded them. Remember that leasing is a business deal with people you hardly know with thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars involved. If you wouldn't take out a mortgage on your house to go into business with people you hardly know, why would leasing your minerals be any different ?
Tim A. Schneider said:
Will they really give you a cashiers check or company check?
Will they really give you the money before you sign the lease and let the check clear? Has anyone ever done this before?
Did you cash the $50 checks ? That would be a fine example of partial consideration for a lease where you might have to sue to get the balance. The lease could stand on partial consideration alone.
Tripp Hammer said:
Each of my family received a $50 check with the initial lease documents. As they were processing the lease papers they came along some anomalies that have had to be perfected. My brother, who is an attorney is keeping a close watch this time to see if they come through. They claim that they will be FedExing company checks to us this week. I'm not holding my breath. I do know the Executive Director of the Montana Petroleum Association, Dave Galt and I intend to give him a call later this week if the money doesn't show. I do know that there will be legislation to clear a bunch of the "hocus pocus" crap up when the state legislature meets next year.
Tim A. Schneider said:Will they really give you a cashiers check or company check?
Will they really give you the money before you sign the lease and let the check clear? Has anyone ever done this before?
Wilson Township, I was never paid the lease bonus for a lease and I have received the 1099 from the wannabe lessee that I am suing because the draft expired [ deal dead ] then the potential lessee recorded the lease and they never paid me. I am reporting them to the IRS because they never paid me and now they want to take the bonus payment they never paid off their taxes.
I will now answer my own question. Our family chose to work with Shale Exploration LLC and their offices in Scobey. We worked with them directly through a complicated set of mineral rights (many heirs to the orginal right). As of this morning my check had cleared the bank with no problems. And it didn't have to be a cashier's check. I recognize that many on this forum have little trust in oil leasing companies but; remember when you're pointing the finger at them, three fingers are usually pointing back at yourself. The folks that we worked through all the problems with at Shale Oil were always quite respectful and whenever they were asked a question they answered plainly and clearly. They kept us informed as to the progress and when a small minor hiccup occurred they quickly remedied it. We didn't need to hire an attorney to work through the process. Everything was spelled out clearly. However we did have a family member that was an experienced attorney take a look at our leases and his comments were that they were quite clear and fair.
So folks, I would suggest that if Shale Oil contacts you, give them a chance. They are honest hard-working folks.
Tripp,
What were the terms you agreed to?
Tripp Hammer said:
I will now answer my own question. Our family chose to work with Shale Exploration LLC and their offices in Scobey. We worked with them directly through a complicated set of mineral rights (many heirs to the orginal right). As of this morning my check had cleared the bank with no problems. And it didn't have to be a cashier's check. I recognize that many on this forum have little trust in oil leasing companies but; remember when you're pointing the finger at them, three fingers are usually pointing back at yourself. The folks that we worked through all the problems with at Shale Oil were always quite respectful and whenever they were asked a question they answered plainly and clearly. They kept us informed as to the progress and when a small minor hiccup occurred they quickly remedied it. We didn't need to hire an attorney to work through the process. Everything was spelled out clearly. However we did have a family member that was an experienced attorney take a look at our leases and his comments were that they were quite clear and fair.
So folks, I would suggest that if Shale Oil contacts you, give them a chance. They are honest hard-working folks.
Many heirs to a large amount of acres is standard, I'd say monolithic ownership would be the exception. I'm not worried about how many fingers might be pointed my way as my business can stand the light of day. Glad things worked out for you. I recommend people look up what LLC means before you deal with one.
Tripp Hammer said:
I will now answer my own question. Our family chose to work with Shale Exploration LLC and their offices in Scobey. We worked with them directly through a complicated set of mineral rights (many heirs to the orginal right). As of this morning my check had cleared the bank with no problems. And it didn't have to be a cashier's check. I recognize that many on this forum have little trust in oil leasing companies but; remember when you're pointing the finger at them, three fingers are usually pointing back at yourself. The folks that we worked through all the problems with at Shale Oil were always quite respectful and whenever they were asked a question they answered plainly and clearly. They kept us informed as to the progress and when a small minor hiccup occurred they quickly remedied it. We didn't need to hire an attorney to work through the process. Everything was spelled out clearly. However we did have a family member that was an experienced attorney take a look at our leases and his comments were that they were quite clear and fair.
So folks, I would suggest that if Shale Oil contacts you, give them a chance. They are honest hard-working folks.
Glad it worked out for you. I haven't been paid & neither has my friend and his family members. Shale keeps telling them "the check is in the mail".
We signed a non-disclosure. However, without divulging the particulars I can tell you it was what has been listed before for 5 years.
Wilsontownship said:
Tripp,
What were the terms you agreed to?
Tripp Hammer said:I will now answer my own question. Our family chose to work with Shale Exploration LLC and their offices in Scobey. We worked with them directly through a complicated set of mineral rights (many heirs to the orginal right). As of this morning my check had cleared the bank with no problems. And it didn't have to be a cashier's check. I recognize that many on this forum have little trust in oil leasing companies but; remember when you're pointing the finger at them, three fingers are usually pointing back at yourself. The folks that we worked through all the problems with at Shale Oil were always quite respectful and whenever they were asked a question they answered plainly and clearly. They kept us informed as to the progress and when a small minor hiccup occurred they quickly remedied it. We didn't need to hire an attorney to work through the process. Everything was spelled out clearly. However we did have a family member that was an experienced attorney take a look at our leases and his comments were that they were quite clear and fair.
So folks, I would suggest that if Shale Oil contacts you, give them a chance. They are honest hard-working folks.
Elaine, I'm sorry to hear that. I can only say this in our case patience was the virtue. I find it interesting about your "the check is in the mail" comment. They never said anything like that until the check was actually being FedEx'd to each of us which was just last week. We initially signed papers back in October and had to re-sign in February because of some filing issues. Remember they have to have very clean and clear records to check at the court house and Daniels Country records are not as great as are in many other counties. This I know because over the past twenty years I have gone to several court houses and done my own research. I can only say that we had one family member serve as the focal point which I'm sure made it easier for them to deal with us also. Also he was a very tactful and courteous negotiator. So I don't know what your particulars are but I wish you Good Luck!
Elaine Huff said:
Glad it worked out for you. I haven't been paid & neither has my friend and his family members. Shale keeps telling them "the check is in the mail".
r w:
I do know what an LLC is and have had an LLC for over 10 years. I can tell you that being an LLC does not get you off the hook if a business negligence is committed. I find that an LLC, at least in my case was done primarily for accounting purposes and to make sure my home wouldn't be caught up if I had a business claim. If you check out many of the other leasing agents, they fall into the same category. Why are you making such a big deal about this?
r w kennedy said:
Many heirs to a large amount of acres is standard, I'd say monolithic ownership would be the exception. I'm not worried about how many fingers might be pointed my way as my business can stand the light of day. Glad things worked out for you. I recommend people look up what LLC means before you deal with one.
Tripp Hammer said:I will now answer my own question. Our family chose to work with Shale Exploration LLC and their offices in Scobey. We worked with them directly through a complicated set of mineral rights (many heirs to the orginal right). As of this morning my check had cleared the bank with no problems. And it didn't have to be a cashier's check. I recognize that many on this forum have little trust in oil leasing companies but; remember when you're pointing the finger at them, three fingers are usually pointing back at yourself. The folks that we worked through all the problems with at Shale Oil were always quite respectful and whenever they were asked a question they answered plainly and clearly. They kept us informed as to the progress and when a small minor hiccup occurred they quickly remedied it. We didn't need to hire an attorney to work through the process. Everything was spelled out clearly. However we did have a family member that was an experienced attorney take a look at our leases and his comments were that they were quite clear and fair.
So folks, I would suggest that if Shale Oil contacts you, give them a chance. They are honest hard-working folks.
Why would you be worried about me recommending the average person find out what a LLC is before they deal with one ? I don't deal with LLC period.
Well r w, I'm not worried. Obviously you've had little business experience dealing with an LLC. Here's some links regarding LLCs:
IRS treatement of an LLC: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98277,00.html
Montana Statute: http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca_toc/35_8.htm
My LLC even handled a national contract. I think we has human beings need to be as concerned of our dealings with other human beings. Sorry that you seem to be so biased about LLCs.
r w kennedy said:
Why would you be worried about me recommending the average person find out what a LLC is before they deal with one ? I don't deal with LLC period.
Tripp,
I am curious, have you leased minerals before?
Wilson
Wilson:
I have not leased minerals but sold my mineral leases for other properties. I've always been a lessor.
Tripp
Wilsontownship said:
Tripp,
I am curious, have you leased minerals before?
Wilson
Tripp,
yeah, I didn't word that right, but that is what I meant (lessor). I thought it appeared you had been down this road before. Glad this deal came together for you.
Wilson
Tripp Hammer said:
Wilson:
I have not leased minerals but sold my mineral leases for other properties. I've always been a lessor.
Tripp
Wilsontownship said:Tripp,
I am curious, have you leased minerals before?
Wilson
I am very biased against LLC. As you said it protects your personal property. The LLC can be kept poor or in debt, even in debt to you, and if someone wants to sue the LLC there is nothing to be recovered. Chesapeake's LLC have been in the news as having no identifiable assets after concluding hundreds of leases with people in Michigan. Yes a LLC can be sued, but if the LLC owns nothing and is in debt, what could you reasonably hope to recover ? Yes I am biased against doing business with LLC, so much so that I think I will have to set up at least one to deal with oil companies in the future, just to level the playing field. I did follow your link and read what I found, it confirmed exactly what I think LLC are. By the way, LLC are not people, they are entities.
Tripp Hammer said:
Well r w, I'm not worried. Obviously you've had little business experience dealing with an LLC. Here's some links regarding LLCs:
IRS treatement of an LLC: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98277,00.html
Montana Statute: http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca_toc/35_8.htm
My LLC even handled a national contract. I think we has human beings need to be as concerned of our dealings with other human beings. Sorry that you seem to be so biased about LLCs.
r w kennedy said:Why would you be worried about me recommending the average person find out what a LLC is before they deal with one ? I don't deal with LLC period.
There is also a little LLC entity known as Chrysler Group, LLC.
Guess you won't be buying one of the new 300's?
r w kennedy said:
I am very biased against LLC. As you said it protects your personal property. The LLC can be kept poor or in debt, even in debt to you, and if someone wants to sue the LLC there is nothing to be recovered. Chesapeake's LLC have been in the news as having no identifiable assets after concluding hundreds of leases with people in Michigan. Yes a LLC can be sued, but if the LLC owns nothing and is in debt, what could you reasonably hope to recover ? Yes I am biased against doing business with LLC, so much so that I think I will have to set up at least one to deal with oil companies in the future, just to level the playing field. I did follow your link and read what I found, it confirmed exactly what I think LLC are. By the way, LLC are not people, they are entities.
Tripp Hammer said:Well r w, I'm not worried. Obviously you've had little business experience dealing with an LLC. Here's some links regarding LLCs:
IRS treatement of an LLC: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98277,00.html
Montana Statute: http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca_toc/35_8.htm
My LLC even handled a national contract. I think we has human beings need to be as concerned of our dealings with other human beings. Sorry that you seem to be so biased about LLCs.
r w kennedy said:Why would you be worried about me recommending the average person find out what a LLC is before they deal with one ? I don't deal with LLC period.
Thanks Steven, I forgot about that one. I thnk r w kennedy has not realized that it is the folks who are behind a corporation, partnership, single owner or what ever that make it up and provide its trust. It's still necessary to evaluate an entity regardless of who they are. In this particular case, I do recommend Shale Oil. Take Care
Steven Smith said:
There is also a little LLC entity known as Chrysler Group, LLC.
Guess you won't be buying one of the new 300's?
r w kennedy said:I am very biased against LLC. As you said it protects your personal property. The LLC can be kept poor or in debt, even in debt to you, and if someone wants to sue the LLC there is nothing to be recovered. Chesapeake's LLC have been in the news as having no identifiable assets after concluding hundreds of leases with people in Michigan. Yes a LLC can be sued, but if the LLC owns nothing and is in debt, what could you reasonably hope to recover ? Yes I am biased against doing business with LLC, so much so that I think I will have to set up at least one to deal with oil companies in the future, just to level the playing field. I did follow your link and read what I found, it confirmed exactly what I think LLC are. By the way, LLC are not people, they are entities.
Tripp Hammer said:Well r w, I'm not worried. Obviously you've had little business experience dealing with an LLC. Here's some links regarding LLCs:
IRS treatement of an LLC: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98277,00.html
Montana Statute: http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca_toc/35_8.htm
My LLC even handled a national contract. I think we has human beings need to be as concerned of our dealings with other human beings. Sorry that you seem to be so biased about LLCs.
r w kennedy said:Why would you be worried about me recommending the average person find out what a LLC is before they deal with one ? I don't deal with LLC period.
Actually Steven Smith, I have never owned a Chrysler product, although I have worked on many that were owned by people I know, and you are correct that I will not be buying one of the new 300's. It was a good ploy on your part, but not what we are discussing here which is OIL COMPANY LLC. I am sure that Crysler has some identifiable assets, plant and property. The oil company LLC is a pass through mechanism. In Michigan, Chesapeak collected many hundreds of leases through multiple cutout LLC. Now that suit has been filed against the LLC, it's been in the news that the LLC have no identifiable assets, not all of the leases failed title reveiw, where are those that didn't, wouldn't they be assets ? I will tell you that they passed through the LLC, probably werent in the LLC that obtained the lease for more than a few days (possibly never were), before they were transferred to the holding LLC, which I am sure was not the LLC, that spawned the LLC, that did the leasing. It's easier to not deal with a LLC than to make certain that they are not just a passthrough. Try telling all those people in Michigan that LLC are ok. I may be inexperienced in business, but you seem to not be aware of recent history.