Are you two done now? LOL
Probably not.
Sharlie Moore said:
Are you two done now? LOL
Too funny! At least I know what to expect.. If you hear of anyone drilling in Daniels County let me know ok?
Tripp:
The many posts to this thread have been informative and enlightening, and the friendly banter has made me chuckle quite often. But the answer to the original several posts boils down to the fact that you are the only one who has had a good experience any O&G company operating in Daniels County.
Wilsontownship & RW Kennedy make excellent points about LLC's and the most popular reasons for forming an LLC. I agree, not all LLC's are specifically formed for "insulation" against legitimate claims, but it's still the built-in bonus should rain fall on the LLC. How would an individual or entity know, prior to engaging in business activity with an LLC, that there are sufficient assets and/or insurance to recoup any damages, and that those assets/insurance will be intact when the time to pay that judgment has arrived? As far as I know, that information would be privileged, unless and until it is subpoenaed during the course of discovery in a lawsuit. I ask you this question because you've indicated you've done significant business through your LLC.
PS: Since Fiat became the major stockholder of Chrysler, a Chrysler 300 is really a Fiat 300 !!
Sharlie, I will do that. Do you have a range and township in particular you are interested in ? I can find the nearest wells and look at their production. I'm glad you caught my humor.
Sharlie Moore said:
Too funny! At least I know what to expect.. If you hear of anyone drilling in Daniels County let me know ok?
Thanks for asking a very good question Chuckie. I had done quite a bit of research before we chose to commit to Shale Exploration LLC before we engaged them. One of the first things that I did was check their status of doing business in Montana with the Secretary of State. Here's a link which will take you to the business site to check whether they have registered as a business in Montana and if the business is active: https://app.mt.gov/bes/instruct.html This at least allowed me to know if they were a genuine company doing business in Montana. I then did a Google Search on "Shale Exploration" to verify their web page (http://shaleexp.com/) and then went to it and checked out each and every page. If you are a real techno geek as I am, you'll discover that they registered their web site under several URLs : including http://shaleexploration.com. I sure wished I had done that with one of the other companies that were vying for our leases. I discovered that I was not dealing with a shell corporation but the actual company that was active in oil & gas development. I then check the principals of the company and could not find anything derogatory about the company. Just as a tidbit I was a bit pleased by a quote on the page describing the President of the company: "Always do right. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." Not that it made a difference but I must admit that it did add to the pile of pluses. I also discovered that we were working directly with a company doing business in the industry and not a shell with little or no history. As far as your statement regarding assets and/or insurance it is tangetial to the discussion. Legal protection from lawsuit does not come necessarily through incoporation; whether it be as a full corporation or LLC. As a small LLC I had to provide proof of insurance to major corporations before they agreed to do business with me. The assets of a service truck, equipment and parts were not even really considered; but my business reputation and credit worthiness were check out. I was also rated by two different business evaluation entities. Personally I would never to business with a company simply because they had assets or insurance to recover damages from. The information was never priveleged providing that is what I had to provide to qualify to do business with them. Business ITEGRITY would always be the main reason; and true, it does take some research. Now to be fair to Wilsontownship and RW Kennedy I did a few hours of research on their issues and I take great umbrage to their remarks specifically categorizing LLCs as they do. In the case of the Michigan land leasing issues It was NOT Chesapeake LLC that was doing the leasing. First Chesapeake LLC did not have anything to do with this, directly or indirectly. Chesapeake ENERGY Corporation did, according articles published in Forbes and a Reuter's new report. They did have a shell LLC called Northern Michigan Exploration LLC but that wasn't the real issue. As reported much of the land that they had leased was mortgage, thus couldn't be leased. There were a quandry of lease issues that made a lot of them too difficult to get awarded. This was found out in title discovery. Secondly, much of the land leases was being held up by persons holding out for non-standard lease agreements or trying to get better prices. Then two other major factors occurred: First test holes indicated that there were not the vast natural gas reserves they had thought they were. Secondly, the bottom fell out of the natural gas market. I believe a lot of this could be credited to T. Boone Picken's "drill baby drill" promotion. I hope this will be helpful. Here are several of my research links:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2011/01/21/chesapeake-energy-whats-up-with-these-lawsuits/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/28/us-energy-giant-newspro-idUSTRE7BR0HS20111228
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OguftjHFbtw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epmLZZMF3Ac&feature=relmfu
P.S. - By the way if you don't want to do business with another LLC then you don't want to be doing business with Amazon.com either. lol.
Take Care,
Tripp
Chuckie said:
Tripp:
The many posts to this thread have been informative and enlightening, and the friendly banter has made me chuckle quite often. But the answer to the original several posts boils down to the fact that you are the only one who has had a good experience any O&G company operating in Daniels County.
Wilsontownship & RW Kennedy make excellent points about LLC's and the most popular reasons for forming an LLC. I agree, not all LLC's are specifically formed for "insulation" against legitimate claims, but it's still the built-in bonus should rain fall on the LLC. How would an individual or entity know, prior to engaging in business activity with an LLC, that there are sufficient assets and/or insurance to recoup any damages, and that those assets/insurance will be intact when the time to pay that judgment has arrived? As far as I know, that information would be privileged, unless and until it is subpoenaed during the course of discovery in a lawsuit. I ask you this question because you've indicated you've done significant business through your LLC.
PS: Since Fiat became the major stockholder of Chrysler, a Chrysler 300 is really a Fiat 300 !!
P.P.S - I apologize for my keyboard's misspellings and errant characters.
Tripp Hammer said:
Thanks for asking a very good question Chuckie. I had done quite a bit of research before we chose to commit to Shale Exploration LLC before we engaged them. One of the first things that I did was check their status of doing business in Montana with the Secretary of State. Here's a link which will take you to the business site to check whether they have registered as a business in Montana and if the business is active: https://app.mt.gov/bes/instruct.html This at least allowed me to know if they were a genuine company doing business in Montana. I then did a Google Search on "Shale Exploration" to verify their web page (http://shaleexp.com/) and then went to it and checked out each and every page. If you are a real techno geek as I am, you'll discover that they registered their web site under several URLs : including http://shaleexploration.com. I sure wished I had done that with one of the other companies that were vying for our leases. I discovered that I was not dealing with a shell corporation but the actual company that was active in oil & gas development. I then check the principals of the company and could not find anything derogatory about the company. Just as a tidbit I was a bit pleased by a quote on the page describing the President of the company: "Always do right. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." Not that it made a difference but I must admit that it did add to the pile of pluses. I also discovered that we were working directly with a company doing business in the industry and not a shell with little or no history. As far as your statement regarding assets and/or insurance it is tangetial to the discussion. Legal protection from lawsuit does not come necessarily through incoporation; whether it be as a full corporation or LLC. As a small LLC I had to provide proof of insurance to major corporations before they agreed to do business with me. The assets of a service truck, equipment and parts were not even really considered; but my business reputation and credit worthiness were check out. I was also rated by two different business evaluation entities. Personally I would never to business with a company simply because they had assets or insurance to recover damages from. The information was never priveleged providing that is what I had to provide to qualify to do business with them. Business ITEGRITY would always be the main reason; and true, it does take some research. Now to be fair to Wilsontownship and RW Kennedy I did a few hours of research on their issues and I take great umbrage to their remarks specifically categorizing LLCs as they do. In the case of the Michigan land leasing issues It was NOT Chesapeake LLC that was doing the leasing. First Chesapeake LLC did not have anything to do with this, directly or indirectly. Chesapeake ENERGY Corporation did, according articles published in Forbes and a Reuter's new report. They did have a shell LLC called Northern Michigan Exploration LLC but that wasn't the real issue. As reported much of the land that they had leased was mortgage, thus couldn't be leased. There were a quandry of lease issues that made a lot of them too difficult to get awarded. This was found out in title discovery. Secondly, much of the land leases was being held up by persons holding out for non-standard lease agreements or trying to get better prices. Then two other major factors occurred: First test holes indicated that there were not the vast natural gas reserves they had thought they were. Secondly, the bottom fell out of the natural gas market. I believe a lot of this could be credited to T. Boone Picken's "drill baby drill" promotion. I hope this will be helpful. Here are several of my research links:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2011/01/21/chesapeake...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/28/us-energy-giant-newspro-i...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OguftjHFbtw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epmLZZMF3Ac&feature=relmfu
P.S. - By the way if you don't want to do business with another LLC then you don't want to be doing business with Amazon.com either. lol.
Take Care,
Tripp
Chuckie said:Tripp:
The many posts to this thread have been informative and enlightening, and the friendly banter has made me chuckle quite often. But the answer to the original several posts boils down to the fact that you are the only one who has had a good experience any O&G company operating in Daniels County.
Wilsontownship & RW Kennedy make excellent points about LLC's and the most popular reasons for forming an LLC. I agree, not all LLC's are specifically formed for "insulation" against legitimate claims, but it's still the built-in bonus should rain fall on the LLC. How would an individual or entity know, prior to engaging in business activity with an LLC, that there are sufficient assets and/or insurance to recoup any damages, and that those assets/insurance will be intact when the time to pay that judgment has arrived? As far as I know, that information would be privileged, unless and until it is subpoenaed during the course of discovery in a lawsuit. I ask you this question because you've indicated you've done significant business through your LLC.
PS: Since Fiat became the major stockholder of Chrysler, a Chrysler 300 is really a Fiat 300 !!
First Chrysler, and now Amazon.com. Has anyone following this made a single transaction with Amazon.com in the amount of $10,000 to $500,000 ? I didn't realize that Chrysler or Amazon.com were in the oil and gas leasing business, who do I talk to there about leasing my minerals? I learn new things every day, I totally missed the Chrysler / Amazon oil and gas connection. I did enjoy the propaganda links to youtube, I am sure they are as true as some of the things you could see on youtube, meaning that you could find 50 people to agree to just about anything. I wonder if you read the comments after the Forbes report ? I think everyone else should, but I think you are banking on the fact that most people do little more than skim the surface. The Reuters article describes what I said LLC are frequently used for and the way Chesapeake used them. Tripp, you say Chesapeake had nothing to do with, directly or indirectly, with the happenings in Michigan, that is not what I got from the Reuters.com article. What I did get was that Chesapeake set up an LLC, LA Land Acquisition an entity with no discernable assets, which set up another LLC, Northern Michigan Oil and Gas, another entity with no known assets which hired other companies to procure the leases. Simple progression, Chesapeake has $ and creates LA Land Acquisation which has no $ and creates Northern Michigan Oil and Gas which has no $ which hires other companies to procure leases. Where did this money to hire others come from ? Did the money come from the sky or did Chesapeake provide it ? It may be a cliche but it's still true Follow The Money. Northern Michigan Oil and Gas had to get the money from somewhere to hire the companies to gather leases. The orders to reject leases came from someone working for Chesapeake with a Chesapeak e-mail address. I will admit right now that I don't care if what Chesapeake did was legal or not, I am saying that I am not doing business with an LLC in the oil and gas business. Sayng Chesapeake had noting to do with Northern Michigan Oil and Gas, is like saying I wouldn't be responsible for your death if I hired someone to kill you through at least two intermediaries.
Your meandering questions do not deserve any more of my research. Find your own answers and realize that you intially referred to ALL LLCs. If your are threatening me, rest assured I do not take it lightly and will maintain a copy of this for the authorities. Your are done wasting my time.
r w kennedy said:
First Chrysler, and now Amazon.com. Has anyone following this made a single transaction with Amazon.com in the amount of $10,000 to $500,000 ? I didn't realize that Chrysler or Amazon.com were in the oil and gas leasing business, who do I talk to there about leasing my minerals? I learn new things every day, I totally missed the Chrysler / Amazon oil and gas connection. I did enjoy the propaganda links to youtube, I am sure they are as true as some of the things you could see on youtube, meaning that you could find 50 people to agree to just about anything. I wonder if you read the comments after the Forbes report ? I think everyone else should, but I think you are banking on the fact that most people do little more than skim the surface. The Reuters article describes what I said LLC are frequently used for and the way Chesapeake used them. Tripp, you say Chesapeake had nothing to do with, directly or indirectly, with the happenings in Michigan, that is not what I got from the Reuters.com article. What I did get was that Chesapeake set up an LLC, LA Land Acquisition an entity with no discernable assets, which set up another LLC, Northern Michigan Oil and Gas, another entity with no known assets which hired other companies to procure the leases. Simple progression, Chesapeake has $ and creates LA Land Acquisation which has no $ and creates Northern Michigan Oil and Gas which has no $ which hires other companies to procure leases. Where did this money to hire others come from ? Did the money come from the sky or did Chesapeake provide it ? It may be a cliche but it's still true Follow The Money. Northern Michigan Oil and Gas had to get the money from somewhere to hire the companies to gather leases. The orders to reject leases came from someone working for Chesapeake with a Chesapeak e-mail address. I will admit right now that I don't care if what Chesapeake did was legal or not, I am saying that I am not doing business with an LLC in the oil and gas business. Sayng Chesapeake had noting to do with Northern Michigan Oil and Gas, is like saying I wouldn't be responsible for your death if I hired someone to kill you through at least two intermediaries.
What say we get back to making this a nice place to visit, ok?
I just went through this thread twice Tripp and did not find one single instance of where I used ALL in conjunction with LLC. Post it if you can find it. I did say that I would not deal with LLC, I did not say all LLC are merely passthrough entities. Saying I personally would not deal with LLC is not equivocal to all LLC acting as passthroughs and legal shields against lawsuits. You misdirect and you have mischaracterized me. You may save 10,000 copies of what I wrote. As a matter of fact I think you should complain to those who run this board, surely they will take action if I am out of line.
Sharlie, I bear Tripp no ill will. I do think he is wrong in saying Chesapeake had nothing to do with the LLC that it spawned and sent to Michigan. Rational people can disagree. I say again that I bear tripp no ill will. I'm not sure he feels the same of me.
Sharlie Moore said:
What say we get back to making this a nice place to visit, ok?
Tripp,
You seem to have a lot of nerve. I can’t quite figure you out, but I think you are out of line. You have no presence on this board until a few weeks ago when you started this post/thread.
Your post was a whiny plea for a lease deal that was legit and you complained about a couple of bum deals that had been offered to you. You come here and ask “us” for comment and look where the thread has drifted. As I see it, you are on the defensive regarding your own decision to lease with Shale Exploration and you seem on the attack against RW and myself. In my case, you are implying that what happened in MI wasn’t that big of a deal (maybe just sour grapes). I suggest you go back to that Reuters article but this time put your glasses on and turn off the TV – you need to concentrate.
So you asked us for input and then you “turn on us” and I’ll say “us” appears to be anyone that doesn’t share your confidence in Shale Exploration. Your own thread even contains posts by people that have not been paid by Shale Exploration. Your behavior is peculiar because you actually start out by implying that Shale Exploration is one of the companies unable to consummate a credible lease deal. You say this in your question by mentioning the city the have their office. Another tidbit is that you also state that you accepted a $50 dollar payment from them that was included with the lease. Although I am not positive, you may have cashed that check which would bind you to the Shale Exploration deal.
It appears that your own deal with Shale took 6 months to close and even played a game with you by providing the $50. Now you are on the Shale Exploration band wagon and that is fine, but I would suggest you leave the whole topic alone. In fact, you might be better served on this board by becoming a lurker (just read and learn) since your posts seem to agitate rather than enlighten.
You have been on the board for only 3 weeks. I would suggest taking it a bit easier. I would also suggest you show some appreciation for what others offer when you post asking a question. Your post saying “I’ll answer my own question” also doesn’t sit well with me. Sounds like you have an attitude. I don’t know exactly what your experience is, but frankly after watching your behavior on this thread I don’t care. I posted earlier that I was happy for you that your deal FINALLY went through with Shale Exploration and I am, but there are many others that apparently weren’t as fortunate.
You are being unrealistic and not at all clever on your LLC tangent. The point about LLCs is that they are very easy, cheap and quick to form. Most states do not require the LLC to disclose who is behind them (if someone behind them) or even what their product/service is. An LLC all by itself isn’t the crime, the crime is use of an LLC in a shell game – which does occur in the gas/oil leasing game and RW and I were trying to warn readers that care to learn, that they should be cautious and thoroughly investigate who they are dealing with. Why not just say thanks for the heads up? Instead you have gone on the defensive trying to discredit our comments and/or experience.
I hope that NOW I am not the target of your nonsensical posts; but if so, I can deal with it. I just hope the people that care about these posts and read them to learn come away with this: when working with a leasing company it is important to investigate them, do all you can do to know who you are leasing to and what their intentions are. The best circumstance is to deal with and lease to the gas and oil exploration company. Sure sometimes this is not possible and you’ll deal with a landman firm. But a landman firm that has been around has a reputation – don’t they. A shell is a newly formed company, generally a LLC. But what happened in MI was that multiple layers of shells hired reputable and established landmen firms in MI. These local landmen firms said “hey we are local”, we hire local, we have been here for years, you want to work with us because we are “you”. Who are you repping? We aren’t able to say, but they are big? In fact, the landman firm that I signed a lease with was representing another landman firm that had just paid a record $135 million anonymously at the MI state mineral auction for who was rumored to be Chesapeake Energy. Yep, later it was proven in court proceedings. You see when they wanted out of the play they decided that they didn’t want to honor the 1000+ signed leases so one of the shells started the mass rejection.
You see Tripp and readers, you must be thorough and cautious. I wish the best to everyone. I am pro gas and oil exploration and fully support the use of fracking technology. I am here to share and learn as I suspect most are.
Wilson
Well said, Wilsontownship.
Wilsontownship said:
Tripp,
You seem to have a lot of nerve. I can’t quite figure you out, but I think you are out of line. You have no presence on this board until a few weeks ago when you started this post/thread.
Your post was a whiny plea for a lease deal that was legit and you complained about a couple of bum deals that had been offered to you. You come here and ask “us” for comment and look where the thread has drifted. As I see it, you are on the defensive regarding your own decision to lease with Shale Exploration and you seem on the attack against RW and myself. In my case, you are implying that what happened in MI wasn’t that big of a deal (maybe just sour grapes). I suggest you go back to that Reuters article but this time put your glasses on and turn off the TV – you need to concentrate.
So you asked us for input and then you “turn on us” and I’ll say “us” appears to be anyone that doesn’t share your confidence in Shale Exploration. Your own thread even contains posts by people that have not been paid by Shale Exploration. Your behavior is peculiar because you actually start out by implying that Shale Exploration is one of the companies unable to consummate a credible lease deal. You say this in your question by mentioning the city the have their office. Another tidbit is that you also state that you accepted a $50 dollar payment from them that was included with the lease. Although I am not positive, you may have cashed that check which would bind you to the Shale Exploration deal.
It appears that your own deal with Shale took 6 months to close and even played a game with you by providing the $50. Now you are on the Shale Exploration band wagon and that is fine, but I would suggest you leave the whole topic alone. In fact, you might be better served on this board by becoming a lurker (just read and learn) since your posts seem to agitate rather than enlighten.
You have been on the board for only 3 weeks. I would suggest taking it a bit easier. I would also suggest you show some appreciation for what others offer when you post asking a question. Your post saying “I’ll answer my own question” also doesn’t sit well with me. Sounds like you have an attitude. I don’t know exactly what your experience is, but frankly after watching your behavior on this thread I don’t care. I posted earlier that I was happy for you that your deal FINALLY went through with Shale Exploration and I am, but there are many others that apparently weren’t as fortunate.
You are being unrealistic and not at all clever on your LLC tangent. The point about LLCs is that they are very easy, cheap and quick to form. Most states do not require the LLC to disclose who is behind them (if someone behind them) or even what their product/service is. An LLC all by itself isn’t the crime, the crime is use of an LLC in a shell game – which does occur in the gas/oil leasing game and RW and I were trying to warn readers that care to learn, that they should be cautious and thoroughly investigate who they are dealing with. Why not just say thanks for the heads up? Instead you have gone on the defensive trying to discredit our comments and/or experience.
I hope that NOW I am not the target of your nonsensical posts; but if so, I can deal with it. I just hope the people that care about these posts and read them to learn come away with this: when working with a leasing company it is important to investigate them, do all you can do to know who you are leasing to and what their intentions are. The best circumstance is to deal with and lease to the gas and oil exploration company. Sure sometimes this is not possible and you’ll deal with a landman firm. But a landman firm that has been around has a reputation – don’t they. A shell is a newly formed company, generally a LLC. But what happened in MI was that multiple layers of shells hired reputable and established landmen firms in MI. These local landmen firms said “hey we are local”, we hire local, we have been here for years, you want to work with us because we are “you”. Who are you repping? We aren’t able to say, but they are big? In fact, the landman firm that I signed a lease with was representing another landman firm that had just paid a record $135 million anonymously at the MI state mineral auction for who was rumored to be Chesapeake Energy. Yep, later it was proven in court proceedings. You see when they wanted out of the play they decided that they didn’t want to honor the 1000+ signed leases so one of the shells started the mass rejection.
You see Tripp and readers, you must be thorough and cautious. I wish the best to everyone. I am pro gas and oil exploration and fully support the use of fracking technology. I am here to share and learn as I suspect most are.
Wilson
Share Exploration has offered us leases on 2000 plus acres in Daniels Co. The terms of the Lease seem average from what I know. They have sent bank drafts with the leases. This post brands Shale Exploration as a bad company that does not fund their bank drafts. Does anyone have any positive experiences with this company? Thanks.
Here's an update to my situation with Shale Exploration. The reason they didn't fund the bank draft is because my minerals are held in trust for me by the Fort Peck Indian Tribe. This creates a different way of having to go about leasing minerals - which I didn't know about (and apparently Shale didn't either). I've been getting an eduction through this process! Anyway, instead of going the direct negotiation route, I am going to lease these minerals through BIA in a bid process that BIA is going to have sometime toward the end of June. As I was ignorant about these minerals having to be treated differently, I wanted to set the record straight.
Thanks for the update Elaine, that is helpful to know about your particular case. Lately there have been other posters asking about Shale Exploration, so your background is useful for those considering Shale Exploration.
Wilson
Elaine Huff said:
Here's an update to my situation with Shale Exploration. The reason they didn't fund the bank draft is because my minerals are held in trust for me by the Fort Peck Indian Tribe. This creates a different way of having to go about leasing minerals - which I didn't know about (and apparently Shale didn't either). I've been getting an eduction through this process! Anyway, instead of going the direct negotiation route, I am going to lease these minerals through BIA in a bid process that BIA is going to have sometime toward the end of June. As I was ignorant about these minerals having to be treated differently, I wanted to set the record straight.
Research seems to show that these guys are legit with backing to actually drill. The Greehey family is big in oil and refineries. I read in one of the articles that this guy is a majority shareholder in Shale Exploration. I've confirmed it with a Wall Street lawyer friend of mine that these guys would have the kind of money necessary for something like this. I'm thinking of flying out there because I want to meet them face to face. I have not seen the backing on any of the other companies. Has anyone researched the other companies? Do we have a list of the companies making offers in Daniels County and do we know if they have the money to drill? Pretty exciting stuff here.
I lived in Daniels County during the last oil boom some 30 years ago. I would like to caution everyone about getting their hopes up. My family's land was leased back then but nothing ever came of it because the boom went bust. I am just hoping to get my minerals leased at a decent price. If any drilling gets done (& if any oil is found) on my land, that will be icing on the cake but I'm not counting on it.
You're definitely correct not to get all ramped-up about it. I find myself getting too excited but then hear about lease flippers and all this and that. I just keep researching and going back to the idea that I need to sign with a company that has the backing to actually drill. The only company I have found anything about financial backing on is Shale Exploration. They look to have the backing. Does anyone have any financial information on the other companies that say they are going to drill? I think it was BakkenOil, LLC someone mentioned in one of these posts. Who or what backs them? I don't understand all this secrecy?