My wife and I are very interested in this event. Wondering how many of you have seen this news flash, and would be interested in hearing your thoughts about it.
Texas Oil & Gas Association filed a lawsuit yesterday. I read the 18 page filing. The City of Denton cannot regulate an activity that is already regulated by the Railroad Commission and the TCEQ. The City of Denton cannot "take" property (minerals) without compensation either. Prohibiting access and the ability to profit from your property (minerals) must be compensated for. There is a recent case out of Houston that addresses a similar issue. Unfortunately, that case took 20 years to settle in favor of the mineral owners. It does set good precedence though.
An argument of mine is this: Denton cannot justify their "ban" for the purpose of "protecting the environment, safety, and health" of their citizens, because they never filed a complaint to the RRC or TCEQ about this specific (fracing) activity, which those agencies have the specific authority to regulate in Texas. If they had filed and documented specific instances of violations where safety or health was jeopardized, and the state agencies failed to act, then I could see the possible necessity to take their own action. Unfortunately for Denton, the Texas Constitution is supreme to their city ordinances, and the courts will likely affirm this.
That's what happens when non mineral owners get the vote. That was a tongue in cheek comment.
As an environmentalist, not the "tree hugger" variety, but the "be kind to your world type", I still believe that the total and cumulative effects are not known. Drive through Luling. The stench is locally known as the smell of money, but I still have to be on oxygen before, during and after I go through Luling. I do stop briefly to get some BBQ, though. I leave the motor running and get it to go.
I have not had that problem in the limited exposure that I have had in the Eagleford.
By the way, Kitch gave a very well thought out and articulate comment. My hat is off.
There are plenty of examples of local ordinances that regulate -- not prohibit -- drilling and production activities in municipalities. That is where it will probably end up.
Best
Buddy Cottenthis is going to wind up costing a lot of money, all of which will go to lawyers. I have not read the specific regulation so I do not know how it is going to be worked out. I agree with Kitchen that this is probably a activity that a city does not have the right to regulate, and it certainly is a taking. Cities do have the power to regulate land use by zoning. This is usually surface use but some cities do regulate water wells in their jurisdictions and Austin and San Antonio have regulations on what can be done on the recharge zone of the Edwards Aquifer. this is going to cost the city of Denton a lot. the college student temporary residents who helped vote this in will not be around to help pay the costs. Every dollar spent in court is one less book in the library, one acre less of green space / park land, and one more dollar that the city will have to raise (ie tax somebody)
AUSTIN - "A state agency that regulates oil and gas will continue issuing permits to companies seeking to drill in Denton, despite residents passing a ban to prevent further hydraulic fracturing in the north Texas city.
At an event sponsored by the Texas Tribune, Railroad Commission Chairwoman Christi Craddick said she was disappointed in the measure's approval and that she will continue issuing the permits, The Dallas Morning News reported.
"It's my job to give permits, not Denton's. We're going to continue permitting up there because that's my job," she said Thursday.
Tuesday's vote in Denton, which sits atop a large natural gas reserve, made it the first Texas city to pass such a ban. The gas fields under it have produced $1 billion in mineral wealth and pumped more than $30 million into city bank accounts. Industry groups have warned the ban could hurt Denton's economy..."
An industry group and the state's General Land Office are seeking an injunction in District Court to stop the ban from being enforced.
City spokeswoman Lindsey Baker said earlier in the week that the city has as much as $4 million in a risk fund for legal challenges." -THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Thanks for all of the thoughts on this topic. All are interesting and informative. Hope to hear from more of you.
My wife and I are deeply appreciative of the revenue we've received from my Texas O & G holdings. However, we don't live in Texas. There seems to be no doubt that there is environmental degradation occurring, and we feel that it would be unconscionable to only take the money and not care about the health, and the concerns, of all of the folks who live there, including the ones who aren't directly producing the O & G. If the fields have generated $1 billion in mineral wealth, it seems there'd be some funds to address the air quality issues, and water too. I guess we're hoping that the action will put the issue on the table for serious discussion, not simply a polarized "us and them" argument. It will be very interesting to see what comes of this; we hope, a deeper understanding of and sensitivity toward the folks who live (and breathe) there.
I don't feel qualified to comment on the environmental effects, but I think the industry needs to come up with something better than what the former CEO of Chesapeake said in a 60 Minutes interview. When asked if the chemicals used in fracking are harmful, he replied, "I don't know. I don't drink them."
Came off as a little arrogant.
John Allen said:
Thanks for all of the thoughts on this topic. All are interesting and informative. Hope to hear from more of you.
My wife and I are deeply appreciative of the revenue we've received from my Texas O & G holdings. However, we don't live in Texas. There seems to be no doubt that there is environmental degradation occurring, and we feel that it would be unconscionable to only take the money and not care about the health, and the concerns, of all of the folks who live there, including the ones who aren't directly producing the O & G. If the fields have generated $1 billion in mineral wealth, it seems there'd be some funds to address the air quality issues, and water too. I guess we're hoping that the action will put the issue on the table for serious discussion, not simply a polarized "us and them" argument. It will be very interesting to see what comes of this; we hope, a deeper understanding of and sensitivity toward the folks who live (and breathe) there.
It's that kind of indifference that will cause the industry the most problems, Dave; that's what we think. We all benefit from petroleum products. Yet, we need a balance between the profits for those who stand to gain the most, and the price paid by those who live near the fracing. Found this article on the internet today. Hadn't previously heard about Dryden. As Andy noted, above, towns do have the right to regulate land use by zoning. Looks like Dryden has been successful in gaining some control over their situation. Very interesting. http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/how-two-small-new-york-towns-have-shaken-up-the-national-fight-over-fracking/2014/07/02/fe9c728a-012b-11e4-8fd0-3a663dfa68ac_story.html
The last I read, there were zero drilling rigs in New York.
John Allen said:
It's that kind of indifference that will cause the industry the most problems, Dave; that's what we think. We all benefit from petroleum products. Yet, we need a balance between the profits for those who stand to gain the most, and the price paid by those who live near the fracing. Found this article on the internet today. Hadn't previously heard about Dryden. As Andy noted, above, towns do have the right to regulate land use by zoning. Looks like Dryden has been successful in gaining some control over their situation. Very interesting. http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/how-two-small-new-yo...
No rigs in NY as of 11/7/14. Must be tough to get a permit.
Dave Quincy said:
The last I read, there were zero drilling rigs in New York.
John Allen said:It's that kind of indifference that will cause the industry the most problems, Dave; that's what we think. We all benefit from petroleum products. Yet, we need a balance between the profits for those who stand to gain the most, and the price paid by those who live near the fracing. Found this article on the internet today. Hadn't previously heard about Dryden. As Andy noted, above, towns do have the right to regulate land use by zoning. Looks like Dryden has been successful in gaining some control over their situation. Very interesting. http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/how-two-small-new-yo...
My biggest concern with hydraulic fracturing is the use of fresh water in places (like Texas) that are struggling to meet supply for drinking water. Once the water is used, it is essentially removed from the ecosystem due to loss underground, and disposal of the flowback due to chemicals and NORMs.
there has been a lot of talk about using the deeper saline groundwater for fracking. I know the bureau of Economic geology is pushing that. There are also a lot of efforts on cleaning up flowback water and reusing it. one point about reusing flowback water is that you keep increasing the concentration of nasty things, so if you do spill some of it the effects are much worse. One other thing that I think is sort of under the radar is all the use of scarce water resources in all of the other infrastructure. the man camps, industrial parks / truck yards all that other stuff that goes on besides the drilling and fracking. washing all those trucks takes a lot of water, how safe is the rinse water, and what do you do with it ? Even before this boom we were starting to look at the brackish groundwater as potential supply sources. DeSal has made some big advances recently and in south Texas salty groundwater is all there is some places. this also changes the requirements for surface casing and for disposal /injection wells Yes arrogant players like the ex ceo of chessie do not make thing easier for the folks who are trying to be responsible. Everyone is going to be watching the Denton situation and it is going to get a lot more press than maybe it warrants. I also wonder how those people who are opposed to fracking are going to feel about the Saudis keeping the prices down. If low prices slow down fracking here, the effects on their wind farms and solar pipe dreams will be even greater.
I think my prior post went a little off the main topic here. What I am trying to point out is that there is a lot more going on than just drilling and completing the wells. a lot of what most people find objectionable are those activities. Lots of big trucks on the roads is the most noticeable. Every time I am down in the Eagleford I am a bit awed by the sheer industrial scale of it. Especially since I have been driving thru that country since the mid-70s on the way to Mexico and there was never much of anything down there. City zoning certainly does have to power to regulate truck traffic, construction of pads and other infrastructure, any type of surface land use. but that is regulate, not ban. ( counties on the other hand do not have these sorts of powers in Texas) Some of the state agencies are very protective of their powers. While the legislature is sometimes protective of land owners rights I doubt they are going to give rights of state agencies to cities. HOA's (home owners associations) do get to be very restrictive, but you agree to that when you buy land in their domain. What does city power stop and state agency begin, where are the limits ? in some things like wastewater cites /counties are granted to power to regulate and they can have their own regulations as long as they are at least as strict as the over all state regs. City /county can have regs more stringent than the basic state regs, but they must show cause for them. A few years ago some where near Houston tried to enact rules for private septic systems that were way out of line with TCEQ standards. They were trying to restrict land use thru those rules but they got rejected. I guess the best thing to do with the Denton case is to get some popcorn, sit back and watch the show. hopefully we wont come away scratching our heads and wondering what to do now.
We all need petroleum products. It's not practical to think of banning it all outright. "Being responsible" is the key phrase, we think. We've been reading some more about the issues with air pollution. The ground water concerns are certainly as valid, but my wife and I think that air quality will catch attention first--the old canary-in-the-coal-mine metaphor seems to fit here. That, and all the dust and traffic and road issues. Here's one report about the air quality issues that is hard to turn away from. http://stories.weather.com/fracking
Regarding Denton, it is very interesting indeed to learn that one of the players in Denton county is none other than Rex Tillerson, CEO of ExxonMobil! Doesn't that speak volumes!? http://www.texasmonthly.com/daily-post/exxonmobil-ceo-doesnt-want-f...