Has anyone done a Determination of Heirs, and if so, would you be willing to share how the process is to be done and particularly if it can cover more than one generation on one form?
Can't you just specifacly stipulate heirs anyway you wish in your will or trust?
Sorry I guess I did not frame my question very well. My Great Grandmother inherited mineral rights from her mother. She then died in 1950, intestate; however my mother did lease those mineral rights out in the 80's. My family, including my cousins, had no idea there were mineral rights and parents also died intestate, so the oil company/landsman said we could do a Determination of Heirs to prove we are the rightful heirs. We need to make this determination from Grandmother to Parents for all of us, and for my sister and I we must also make that determination from our parents to us.
I think an estate attorney will be able to help with this and make sure that they meet any requirements necessary to satisfy ownership issues that might be raised without proper documentation. Make sure to request a title opinion and keep extra copies for future heirs.
We are going thru this now. We have an estate that was not probated since 1972. We had a determination of heirs in 1996, and since all of the heirs have passed away. We are now trying to close this estate and I am obtaining a new Determination of Heirs. You will start with the original will and in your case there seems to be none. So you will follow the state guidelines for the distribution of an estate when the person dies intestate. To prove heirship, you will follow each person from the original person leaving the estate, you will need to produce death certificates, birth certificates, marriage licenses (especially in the case of women who have gone thru a name change), any wills along the way, and or the state guidelines for distribution in cases where the person or persons die intestate. We are doing this thru an estate attorney. There is an incredible amount of paperwork just obtaining these documents on each person living that would be part of the estate. In our case there have been numerous heirs that have died intestate. This information is collected put together to follow the persons and names all the way back to the original owner, seems to be your great grandmother. This will be provided to the court and the judge will rule on a new determination of heirs. Remember to split the inheritance amounts (percentages of heirship/ownership) starting with your great grandmother then moving down the lines. In our case what started in 1972 with seven heirs, by 1996 grew to twelve heirs for that determination, now we total twenty-two heirs. The percentages of ownership are NOT equal among each of these. One heir owns a full 1/7 of the estate and others have as small of ownership percentages as 2.5%.
It is my opinion after dealing with this for years now. Do this NOW. Don't let any more time go by, it only gets harder and harder to trace down everyone. You are most likely in a situation where you are tenants in common with undivided interest. We are in the same boat. It will take 100% of the heirs signing off on any business to get things done. In our case with twenty two heirs this is a major problem. In our family we couldn't get seven heirs to agree in 1972, in 1996 we couldn't get twelve heirs to agree, there are major problems today getting twenty two heirs to sign off on anything today. I am proposing a partnership agreement with voting rights, where a majority vote is all that is needed to get business done. Even getting our family to agree on this is a problem. The determination of heirs is a lot of work but is fairly straightforward.
Hanna,
If an oil and gas company wants to lease your minerals, they should be willing to pay the legal expenses to establish the rightful heirs/owners. If you can show the line of heirs to them, they can probably help you prepare an "affidavit of heirship," which (hopefully) lays out all of the historical facts important to determine who currently owns the minerals. You can hire your own attorney to make sure they got it right, if there is a lot of value involved. An oil company not willing to help you, doesn't really want your lease.
The affidavit of heirship doesn't really establish who is the rightful owner, it just lays out who you think the rightful owners are, and why. Before an oil and gas company actually pays you bonus money for signing the lease, they will do what they can to verify mineral ownership. They may be willing to rely on the affidavit of heirship. Before they drill a well on that leased land, however, they will pay a lot of money to obtain a detailed title opinion which analyzes all title issues and which tells them what they need to do to verify mineral ownership where the public property records are inadequate. They may need to open a probate proceeding or pursue other legal procedures, but whatever they do should be at their expense, not yours. You can hire a lawyer to check their work, to make sure they got it right.
Paul G.
Landman
Jeff Fregeau said:
We are going thru this now. We have an estate that was not probated since 1972. We had a determination of heirs in 1996, and since all of the heirs have passed away. We are now trying to close this estate and I am obtaining a new Determination of Heirs. You will start with the original will and in your case there seems to be none. So you will follow the state guidelines for the distribution of an estate when the person dies intestate. To prove heirship, you will follow each person from the original person leaving the estate, you will need to produce death certificates, birth certificates, marriage licenses (especially in the case of women who have gone thru a name change), any wills along the way, and or the state guidelines for distribution in cases where the person or persons die intestate. We are doing this thru an estate attorney. There is an incredible amount of paperwork just obtaining these documents on each person living that would be part of the estate. In our case there have been numerous heirs that have died intestate. This information is collected put together to follow the persons and names all the way back to the original owner, seems to be your great grandmother. This will be provided to the court and the judge will rule on a new determination of heirs. Remember to split the inheritance amounts (percentages of heirship/ownership) starting with your great grandmother then moving down the lines. In our case what started in 1972 with seven heirs, by 1996 grew to twelve heirs for that determination, now we total twenty-two heirs. The percentages of ownership are NOT equal among each of these. One heir owns a full 1/7 of the estate and others have as small of ownership percentages as 2.5%.
It is my opinion after dealing with this for years now. Do this NOW. Don't let any more time go by, it only gets harder and harder to trace down everyone. You are most likely in a situation where you are tenants in common with undivided interest. We are in the same boat. It will take 100% of the heirs signing off on any business to get things done. In our case with twenty two heirs this is a major problem. In our family we couldn't get seven heirs to agree in 1972, in 1996 we couldn't get twelve heirs to agree, there are major problems today getting twenty two heirs to sign off on anything today. I am proposing a partnership agreement with voting rights, where a majority vote is all that is needed to get business done. Even getting our family to agree on this is a problem. The determination of heirs is a lot of work but is fairly straightforward.
What happens when rights have already been pooled? Then the oil company found me? This is under my grandfather and his 3rd wife. ( No children of that union) 1 son from the first and 1 son (my father) from the 2nd marriage. All died instate and none passed in Colorado. I have birth and death certificates for all so far except my step grandmother who I only know passed in Arizona. After my father passed in 1969 she had nothing to do with us. Ideas? We ( my siblings) are planning a trip to Weld County office to see if we can find the original title but we all live out of state and I am not sure when that will be.
Lucia We just went through this. We are almost finished with the process of having it all resolved. We had a great grandmother who had mineral rights. Upon her death her 4 children rightfully inherited the rights divided 4 ways. Our grandparents had no wills, but somehow each of their children had their rightful share of the rights, but there was no will or legal transfer. Likewise the 3rd generation had none either. There are a total of 8 grandchildren and 17 great grandchildren of the original owner. It will soon be all straightened out. Call Gene Burk, Centennial, CO (303) 793-3133