I am a new member to the forum. I greatly appreciate the wealth of knowledge being shared. I have a couple questions about Property Tax Assessments, but will first provide some background.
In 2012, Antero Resources contacted my father and informed him that he owned 8.6% mineral interest of a 42.9 acre lot in Doddridge County. He eventually signed a 5 year oil & gas lease for 3.7 net mineral acres and subsequently signed a Division Order in March 2014. Only 11.2 acres of the 42.9 were actually pooled into the well unit. Royalty payments included 2013 production. Sadly, he passed away in November 2014. Royalty payments continued in his name into 2015 until the account was suspended while his estate was settled. Antero was provided an Affidavit of Heirship in 2016 that divided the 3.7 net mineral acres equally between my brother and me. Each of us then executed new Division Orders. Royalty payments resumed, the first of which included suspended 2015 production.
We knew very little about this lease upon our father’s death and even less about the intricacies of mineral ownership in West Virginia as we both live out of state. We now know the original mineral interest dates back to land that our Great Grandfather once owned. We have also learned that some distant relatives also own fractional mineral interests in the same lot and also signed leases in 2012.
With that brief background, we have some questions about how Doddridge County assesses property taxes. I recently received two tax tickets: 1) Personal Property Tax for Royalties received and 2) Real Property Tax for Mineral Interests. This seemed rational until I realized my brother only received a Real Property Tax ticket for Mineral Interests. He did not receive a Personal Property Tax ticket for Royalties! In addition, his Mineral Interest assessment is a different amount than mine. Since we both own equal shares and received equal Royalties, I expected our tax tickets to be identical. Can anyone shed light on this?
While viewing the Doddridge County Tax website, I also noticed all tax tickets for my deceased father and distant relatives are for Personal Property Royalties. I am confused why there are no Real Property Tax assessments for Mineral Interests on any these accounts. Can anyone clarify?
To complicate matters, while reviewing my deceased father’s tax tickets, I discovered 2015 & 2016 were delinquent because of an incorrect address on the account. The estate never received these tickets, thus they were never paid. I contacted Doddridge and requested all future correspondence on my father’s account be sent to my address. They told me Antero was at fault for the incorrect address. They also told me Royalty taxes are assessed on a two year lag which is why there is also a current 2017 ticket on my father’s account. I later confirmed that on this forum…thank you Nancy Mosley! My brother and I were not aware of these delinquencies until now. Our father’s estate has since terminated, but we agree it is best to pay these taxes out of our own pockets.
While our mineral interests are somewhat small, we are attempting to learn more and make wise decisions. Thank you.
I think the place to start is asking the Doddridge County assessor's office about when thye assess for production (royalty payments) as personal property and when they assess for real property for the mineral interests. Then ask what was reported to them for your share, and have your brother ask about his share. The county assessors are told by the state tax office how much revenue was reported to them (state) by the producers of the oil and gas, connected to each well on each property interest. If you and your brother both are properly listed as owning equal interests from your father's interests, then the problem might be with the state reporting. I have known of instances where all the revenue was reported to one sibling's interest, from the state to the county, so that sibling had a higher tax than the other. Now is the time to get it straightened out so they can correct things for next year or perhaps by 2019.
Have you (or the executor of your father's estate, if not you) filed paperwork with Doddridge County Clerk's office about the transfer of ownership? Both the county clerk and the company (Antero in your case) need to be notified. Contact the County Clerk's office and ask about this if it hasn't been done yet.
This can be somewhat complicated, so sort it out carefully.
Some counties do not separate out the royalty from the mineral interests, if they are on the same property. It is possible to own ONLY royalty interests, depending on deeds, but it sounds like that is not the case with you. It is possible for a property to be straddling a county line, with the taxing in one county but the production in both, in which case the one county might tax for real property for the mineral interest, and the other as personal property for the royalty income.
EJ,
First off, Nancy is a fantastic source of information and has wonderful insight into the issues associated with ownership of OGM. If I gave Nancy a bottle of wine for every issue she has assisted me with, she would own an entire vineyard.
Especially in dealing with Doddridge County, I have had challenges with tax tickets. If there is a typographical error and they misspell a name, Doddridge County will send a Personal Property Tax Ticket for "Royalty Interest Received" based on the reporting from a production company, since they are unable to assess the royalty to a specific parcel, if there is a spelling error. ie. Jack Jones vs. Jack Jonse or Jack Jones vs. Jones Jack. Essentially, it takes two years for the paperwork to be processed to get a correction and the following year there will be another Personal Property Tax Ticket. Frankly, I have found it easier to 'suck it up' and pay the second assessment for two years, than battle with the Dictatorship in Doddridge County to get things clarified for those two years. I challenge anyone to receive a written response directly from the Doddridge County Assessor, in reply to letters sent to him. I currently have an attorney working to clear up a title mess, caused by erroneous data entry on the County level.
There is no way in learning the truth, but I would love to know how much Doddridge County collects in taxes, based on errors and creative assessments. If nothing else, the county would save significant money in correcting the errors and include all of the Jack Jones tax tickets in one envelope, than sending a separate mailing for each 'version' of the same person. It is even as trivial as Road vs. Rd or an extra space in an address, resulting in separate mailings.
If West Virginia is still in the twentieth century as many claim, Doddridge County is in the nineteenth century.
Thanks WV Mineral Owner! you have helped a lot of people as well.
Most of what I know is from having to figure out problems, often mistakes from somebody or other. It is part of the "payment" for getting the royalty money, having to work for it dealing with the problems!
EJ, if you can get this solved and satisfactoraly settled, please share the process here so others can learn from it. You know there will be more problems for others to solve! And if you get stuck somewhere, ask here and I expect somebody can help.
Thank you for the prompt replies Nancy and WV Mineral Owner!
Nothing has been easy since we inherited these OGM interests. Antero was less than forthcoming and I suspect there will be frustration in trying to get clarification from Doddridge County. I was skeptical when told the incorrect address on my father's account was Antero's fault. What should have been 402 became 462. The only thing I know is someone, somewhere transposed a number!
The estate attorney was supposed to have coordinated between Antero and Doddridge, but I will contact the County Clerk to make sure everything is in order. From there, I will follow your advice and try to get some answers from the Assessors office. If it is anything like dealing with my local Assessor' office I know I am in for an adventure! I will share progress...and setbacks. Thanks again for the feedback.
EJ,
Most of this SHOULD be able to be resolved over the phone, but if you need a West Virginia attorney, both Nancy & I know a few we could recommend.
Good Luck!!!
Just wanted to advise that I have some resolution on my issues. First, I was able to confirm with the County Clerk and Assessor offices that ownership transfer was properly recorded. The Assessors office was then able to investigate the tax ticket discrepancies. During the ownership transfer, they exonerated the royalty taxes associated with our deceased father and then issued two supplemental tickets for my brother and me. I received my supplemental ticket, but they inadvertently used my father's name and incorrect address on my brother's supplemental ticket. They are correcting that ticket to reflect my brother.
While I still don't have a clear understanding of how they determined Real Property (RE) Tax for mineral interests vs. Personal Property (PP) Tax for royalties, they did say the RE and PP amounts were transposed on our individual tickets, thus the confusion when we compared notes. Our total property tax amounts are the same. The clerk also indicated that we should each receive only one ticket next year instead of separate RE and PP tickets. Based upon what I have seen on the county website, it looks like this ticket will be a PP ticket. I can attest that the total tax we were assessed on separate RE and PP tickets is the same amount a relative was assessed on one PP ticket for an identical share of the same well.
Since I was confused about receiving two tax tickets this year, I read Stephanie's recent comment about separate (sometimes unknown) tickets for mineral interests vs. tickets for royalties. In researching family history, I have uncovered several instances of a possible distant relative who lost property due to delinquent taxes on mineral interests that started at $1-$2 per year. This leads me to believe someone paid these minimal taxes on the small interest my father inherited. Now it appears we will receive a combined mineral interest/royalty tax ticket.
Ok, so Friday 7/20/18,
I called Doddridge County to let them know that I recently discovered that I owned half of an area and that I needed to get tax tickets set up so that they don’t inadvertently get sold out from under me. The lady said I do not need to do anything right now…that if I enter into a contract then the company will contact them and Doddridge will then generate a ticket for me. I never heard of such a thing. I paid every year on my mineral rights in Ritchie county. Is Doddridge different?
I have heard that Doddridge has its own way of doing things (from a Ritchie county employee). I believe that there is a process to follow, prescribed by the state of WV, to get something changed to your name. Ritchie county has some procedures, and they differ depending on if you purchased something, or inherited it. If you inherited, did the one you inherited from have a will? If so, did this person live out of state, or in WV but not in Ritchie, or lived in Ritchie? Was the estate large enough (total value) to require probate? If no will, some of these same questions. If the estate administered elsewhere, those papers need to be filed in Ritchie, and an affidavit of heirship prepared and filed (for no will). My sister did the work for our mother’s estate, so I heard about it but didn’t have to do it.
I think that if you prepare an affidavit of heirship and have it notarized and file it in Doddridge, you are getting a start.
Do you have access to the Doddridge documents database?
Here is the Doddridge tax office
You can see if you can find any names to recognize of someone paying taxes.
Here is an interesting website for Doddridge families Doddridge county Roots website
I hope this made sense. If someone else has other or better information, please add it.
Always thankful for Nancy’s, Arnold, Kyle’s input. I haven’t been on the forum in a few years and had to rejoin. I just read about problems with Doddridge Co, have been talking to both offices several times in the last few days, One question!!! Are All WV counties as difficult to deal with?? Both offices blame the other for the problem or Antero, which is not surprising. I learned that Doddridge Co has the HIGHEST tax rate in the state. Is that because there is so much activity in Doddridge Co?
They referred me to the www.propertytaxes.com instead of Doddridge Co website!! I couldn’t find the info I wanted so I called and a man told me some of the info I needed and could not explain why I couldn’t do it myself………… I live in Oklahoma and have taken care of family royalty business for several yr, now trying to get it divided. Doddridge Co have got it in a mess. and I can’t just go in the Courthouse.
Doddridge is a major challenge to deal with, one greatly appreciates the other County tax offices, after having dealt with Doddridge.
So true WV Mineral Owner.
Welcome back Bertie Lou Stringfellow!
Other counties are more helpful. A friend of mine recently received very helpful info on getting several generations of ownership straightened out. She passed on forms that every county in WV should use but maybe Doddridge doesn’t help with that. Call Ritchie if that is what you need. You might need an attorney but maybe not.
Thanks Nancy, I think I got my answer, found out one relative had not paid taxes last yr because of an address change and was trying to make sure no one else was late, we have finally got taxes divided from Antero so one less I have to deal with and pay, I think!!!
I will note your info for future reference.
Thank you
1 Like