My grandmother owned mineral rights in several different counties in OK. She died in 1983 in Texas. Her will, probated in Texas, left everything to her only child, my mother, who later died and whose Texas-probated will was filed in each county in OK. Now a production company that has an approved pooling order is telling me title never transferred to my mother and thus I have questionable title. I contacted one of the counties and they do not have grandmother’s final decree on file, although they have mother’s. I have a copy of grandmother’s will. How do I go about getting a final decree filed in each county 30 years after her death?
Ann,
I'm afraid your problem my be a bit deeper. Oklahoma state law does not accept a foreign probate. The filed Texas probates in the counties of your mothers does not clearly establish marketable title even if your grandmothers is straightened out.
From everything I have gathered, you will either need to probate both estates in Oklahoma or do a quite title suit to clear up the title. Once you have that then copies can be filed in each county to clear everything up.
More than likely they will accept the certified Texas Probate copies to be entered into the Oklahoma Probate proceedings. It should contain a copy of your grandmothers will that is certified by that court. If the will meets Oklahoma requirements, then it should be able to be used. The Texas probate will help identify any heirs or other parties that may be entitled to portions if the will is not acceptable within Oklahoma. Then the heirs will be decided by intestate succession rules. Also if either was married at the time of death, those estates may have to be probated if the wills were not acceptable.
When mother passed away we discovered that about Oklahoma and hired an Oklahoma attorney to take care of getting the will accepted there. That was done, I assume correctly since it is viewable on the OKCounties website. The same was done when Father passed and the final decree/orders appear in each county. However, that may not have been done when grandmother passed. I guess we can contact the attorney who processed both Mother’s and Dad’s wills and see if he can do the same for grandmothers will once I obtain a certified copy from the county in which it was probated. Am I missing something or does this seem like the right path to follow?
The counties clerks offices that record the deeds do not determine the entire validity/legal status of the documents being filed. So, the presence of it being listed may or may not mean you have "marketable title". It is common to use Affidavits of Heirship in this business, but that usually will not give marketable title.
If you can give me the book and page numbers of the sample documents, I'll take a glance. Or send me a friend request with the additional info if you want to keep it more private.
I have seen these issues quite a bit. I've also attended a few seminars and classes that are applicable here. IMO, there is usually only one way to fix it correctly.
I'm not an attorney. I will likely recommend that you talk to one. I'd like to see what work was done previously before I would recommend that you talk to him about it again. You may need a 2nd opinion.
I’m afraid you may right. I hope we can do the summary short probate for both mother and grandmother. I have read the state law on probating small estates and it doesn’t seem hard to do, and perhaps is cheaper than going through the full probate process. Both would qualify for the summary process as the deaths occurred more than five years ago, the value of the real estate is small and both lived outside of OK at the time of their deaths. I have requested the certified copy of grandmothers will, have moms and will contact someone in OK for an estimated cost in attorney fees. I hope this is doable.
Thanks for you input. This has been an interesting ordeal. I may contact this forum again when we have clear title to find out if there is activity on any of the properties.
Correct, it should qualify for a summary probate and they are much quicker therefor less expensive. I'm not clear if either had surviving spouses and that may need to be handled also. I'm sorry for the mess you are having to deal with.
If you need a recommendation for an attorney let me know. I've used a couple within one of the counties you have rights in. I also have info on a couple more.
Good Luck, Ann!
I work for a company that buys minerals. We run into this all the time. Your case does not sound overly difficult. The attorneys we use for these usually charge us $2500 to $3500 for these types of probates. That's assuming we have done the leg work and provide them with the vast majority of the information.
Rick is correct that you have to do a probate to have marketable title, but if you aren't wanting to sell you can also do your best with the division order department of whatever company it is to get put into "pay" status. Some will work with you and some won't. We have many instances where we buy acreage that is too small to justify the expense of a probate, in cases like that we have been successful (sometimes) getting the companies to pay us. Usually they are situations that are very clear but just don't have the order.
Scott,
I fully agree that she may be able to work with many of the oil companies to be placed in pay status with good documentation. That could easily change during an later acquisition and subsequent title review. Also the higher the dollar amounts the operator or purchaser are working with, the more of a chance it will be held in suspense.
Usually it is not a problem getting leased, the big problems come when that horizontal well comes in and the first check for 4-5 production is $10-15K plus. Because many counties are involved in her case, the chance of having to deal with this on an ongoing basis is very likely. If the current bonus amount on the areas subject to lease are capable of tying up all of the loose ends of the estates, it may be money well spent.
A correctly filed affidavit of heirship "may" turn into marketable title in 10 years anyhow. I've just seen so many people struggle with title issues that could be avoided with proper pre-planning and/or handling of the estate.
That last sentence in your statement is absolutely true. If everyone handled their estates properly my job would be a lot easier for sure.
Even though our state has the ten year rule you mention, it doesn't help us much. Many of the companies we deal with require us to probate interests if their is an affidavit of heirship filed anywhere in the chain of title. If we buy something like that it is usually just for us to hold.
Scott,
Do you ever see a quite title suit used to clear these up?
Yes, we do quiet title suits too. If things are too messy we typically have to pass. It would have to be quite a bit of acreage to justify the cost of a difficult quiet title suit. Those attorneys get expensive.
What is a quiet title suit?
I looked up the definition and don’t think we have a “cloud” on the title, but only improper probate that didn’t allow for proper transfer of title to take place. I hope if we have to do two simultaneous summary probates on the same properties an attorney could work with us on the fees. Wishful thinking? I think we have all the information that they would need.
You can do two probates in one case if need be. If you have an honest attorney it should cut down on costs. If for no other reason than it's less trips to the courthouse and less filing fees. Make sure you get an attorney familiar with Oil and Gas. Also make sure they include an "after discovered property clause." Since you said your Grandmother owned in several counties there's always the chance a description might have been left off the inventory. If it is found later, title can be cleared by obtaining a certified copy of the Decree and recording it in against the description that was left off.
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Thanks for the advice!
I have been assuming that my grandmothers will was probated and have requested a copy from the county. However she had no property in Texas to probate so I may find out her will did not need to go through probate and Texas has a statute of limitations on the time to probate. I do have a valid copy of the will. If this turns out to be the case, would the affidavit of heirship be a feasible option to show succession from grandmother to mother? My grandmother was a widow and my mother was an only child. We would prefer to not spend money for probate if possible since it is expensive (several thousand dollars for Dad’s) and we do not earn that much collectively on the few old leases that are still paying. We would be talking about probating two wills (GM and mother). I don’t think that any of the living heirs are interested in selling.
It really is impossible to say. The problem is that every company, and actually every division order department will have different standards. You could have interest in one section that gets drilled by a company that accepts your affidavits and pays you. That same company could drill another section you are in and the division order department will put your money in suspense.
If it were me I would probate. That is assuming we are talking about more than an acre or two. I can tell you that here where I work we set the threshold at 10 acres. A lot of factors go into that and that number could go up or down depending on where minerals are located, if they are subject to 1/8 or 3/16 lease, etc.
Because clear title ends in the name of your Grandmother, there is the possibility that you could have money in suspense. She, and/or your mother, may have been named in a pooling as "address unknown." If you want to post their names, or send them to me in a private message or something I can check that for you pretty quickly. If you know your legal descriptions I can check that also and let you know if you have current activity in your areas.
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Ann,
Define "valid copy" of the will? Is it the signed original and was it witnessed and signed by disinterested parties?
If so it should be acceptable. If it is a copy, it needs to be a certified filed copy of the original (if it was filed at the county courthouse). In absence of a will, it the property follows by intestate succession and would go to your mother anyhow.
You can easily do a single summary probate for $3000 or under. I believe the 2nd at the same time would be less.
You may get an AoH accepted. It will depend on the company paying as they are assuming the liability if your mother's long lost brother they never told you about gets out of prison and rightfully challenges the AoH. When the courts rules the probate, it removes liability.
I see you are a member of the Stephens Co. Group. The horizontal wells in 2N-4W are paying $5000-$10,000 per acre in the first year (based on 3/16 RI). You may not get them to assume that liability.
I always advise people to get it leased on the AoH and take the bonus money and probate the estates. That way you'll have cleaned up the mess for future generations.
Gather all your data and and talk to an attorney for advice. Not just any attorney, but a very good attorney that is an expert in title and estates involving oil and gas properties.
You said you could recommend a good attorney. I would appreciate a referral. That would help me. I will take a look at the will when i have time and reply later today but believe it is as you say.
Rick Howell said:
Ann,
Define “valid copy” of the will? Is it the signed original and was it witnessed and signed by disinterested parties?
If so it should be acceptable. If it is a copy, it needs to be a certified filed copy of the original (if it was filed at the county courthouse). In absence of a will, it the property follows by intestate succession and would go to your mother anyhow.
You can easily do a single summary probate for $3000 or under. I believe the 2nd at the same time would be less.
You may get an AoH accepted. It will depend on the company paying as they are assuming the liability if your mother’s long lost brother they never told you about gets out of prison and rightfully challenges the AoH. When the courts rules the probate, it removes liability.
I see you are a member of the Stephens Co. Group. The horizontal wells in 2N-4W are paying $5000-$10,000 per acre in the first year (based on 3/16 RI). You may not get them to assume that liability.
I always advise people to get it leased on the AoH and take the bonus money and probate the estates. That way you’ll have cleaned up the mess for future generations.
Gather all your data and and talk to an attorney for advice. Not just any attorney, but a very good attorney that is an expert in title and estates involving oil and gas properties.
Scott replied as I was drafting my response.
Agree with him. Take him up on the offer to search for the names and activity, or I'd be glad to do the same for you.