MY wife owns mineral interests on a 218 acre tract in the Centerville District of Tyler. As far as I can determine the last leases were signed(granted) in Feb and March of 1987. There were 11 parties that signed. The lease was granted to Sefco Enterprises INC. A title search was done for Union Drilling INC.
A paragraph in the title search states that
"Said lease was for a primary term of five (5) years from the date thereof, and as long thereafter as operations for oil or gas are being conducted on the premises, or oil or gas is found in paying quantities"
I have a couple of questions: I have heard from several entities trying to market the mineral rights on this tract that it is being held for production.
Doesn't this mean that at some point a well or wells were drilled on the property?? My wife inherited her interest from her mother and has been paying the taxes.
My wife has not been paid any royalties. How can we find out if wells were drilled?? If no well was drilled wouldn't the lease be void?? We would appreciate any help with
You could go here http://ims.wvgs.wvnet.edu/wvog/viewer.htm On the left, click on the Base Layers folder and select Tax Districts, Highways, and other things to help locate your area.
Find Tyler County, and keep clicking on the area where your wife's interest is, until you get small enough to know it is on her property (if you can). When you get small enough, you will see numbers which are the well numbers (API system where he beginning is 47-095 for West Virginia - Tyler County). If you click on the red "i" then click on the number it will pop up a small screen with well information.
If you get that far and are certain it is on your property, you can see if it is still producing by clicking on the API number on the pop up, then in the Pipeline part of the next screen, click on All Data. It will then show production information if there is any.
OK, Some things I am going to say may be of interest. The eleven persons I assume included your mother inlaw. Did any of the eleven ever receive any royality payment? If the company never did anything to the property it is possible they let the lease run out. They also could hold the lease by making payments to extend the lease. You could ask any of the heirs if they received any monies after say 1992. If you have a copy of the lease I am sure there are some clauses in there for the oil/gas co. to keep the lease going if that's the case. Also, if one of the listed heirs passes away, the oil/gas lease holder needs to be notified. By doing that, the next in line for heirship will get what monies are due to them. I hope anything here helps along with checking on what Nancy said.
Thanks Nancy! Are you located in Tyler CTY?? I will let you know if we are successful with our search! Have a great day!!
Nancy Mosley said:
You could go here http://ims.wvgs.wvnet.edu/wvog/viewer.htm On the left, click on the Base Layers folder and select Tax Districts, Highways, and other things to help locate your area.
Find Tyler County, and keep clicking on the area where your wife's interest is, until you get small enough to know it is on her property (if you can). When you get small enough, you will see numbers which are the well numbers (API system where he beginning is 47-095 for West Virginia - Tyler County). If you click on the red "i" then click on the number it will pop up a small screen with well information.
If you get that far and are certain it is on your property, you can see if it is still producing by clicking on the API number on the pop up, then in the Pipeline part of the next screen, click on All Data. It will then show production information if there is any.
OK, Some things I am going to say may be of interest. The eleven persons I assume included your mother inlaw. Did any of the eleven ever receive any royality payment? If the company never did anything to the property it is possible they let the lease run out. They also could hold the lease by making payments to extend the lease. You could ask any of the heirs if they received any monies after say 1992. If you have a copy of the lease I am sure there are some clauses in there for the oil/gas co. to keep the lease going if that's the case. Also, if one of the listed heirs passes away, the oil/gas lease holder needs to be notified. By doing that, the next in line for heirship will get what monies are due to them. I hope anything here helps along with checking on what Nancy said.
Just drilling a well isn't usually going to keep most leases alive. The well has to produce in paying quantities, and the royalty owners must be paid. If not, the lease will usually expire at the end of the primary term. I've seen a few leases that could be kept alive because of language that requires the lessor to notify the lessee of non-compliance with the lease terms, then give the lessee time to comply. But we can cross that bridge if we come to it.
Nancy and DT have given you some excellent advice on how to figure out whether there was a well on the property, and whether that well is producing, and about what you need to do to determine whether payments have or have not been made.
If you do contact other heirs, they may know whether a well was drilled, and if so, the API number to the well.
If you end up in a fight with the oil and gas company about whether the lease is still in existence, get in touch with me. I'm a WV attorney.
Charles, NO, I am a retired person who is in the same game as you and I post on here from experiences I have had on the gas/oil lease topics. I guess you could call a lot of us "troubleshooters". I spent most of my working life standing up for people as a union steward, so nothing surprises me when dealing with what oil/gas is throwing at us. I have read a lot and I have been in contact a lot with whomever can give me any valuable info. Kyle and several others on this site can give you a lot of good info and it is helpful to read past posts. You will be surprised how many folks are having the same issues as you. Ask questions on here and don't be bashful. Take the process slow and think it out, if you are able to get your mineral property back to unleased.
Charles B Towles said:
Thanks for your input DT! Are you a landman?
DT said:
OK, Some things I am going to say may be of interest. The eleven persons I assume included your mother inlaw. Did any of the eleven ever receive any royality payment? If the company never did anything to the property it is possible they let the lease run out. They also could hold the lease by making payments to extend the lease. You could ask any of the heirs if they received any monies after say 1992. If you have a copy of the lease I am sure there are some clauses in there for the oil/gas co. to keep the lease going if that's the case. Also, if one of the listed heirs passes away, the oil/gas lease holder needs to be notified. By doing that, the next in line for heirship will get what monies are due to them. I hope anything here helps along with checking on what Nancy said.
Thanks for the nod, DT. I think I may be the only professional on this forum who's working in WV. I'm kind of surprised there aren't more. I'm assuming by your photo that you live here in WV?
Nancy Mosely also has spent quite a bit of time educating herself about oil and gas.
There really is a wealth of info here on the forums, like DT said. It can be a little difficult to sift through the massive quantity of information to find exactly what you need, though, which is why we keep answering questions when they come up. Plus it's fun to get to know new people.
Thanks Kyle, I'll probably need some help with this. The tax ticket does not indicate that it is leased but I find it hard to believe that none of the heirs checked into it! How could I obtain a copy of the original lease? I'll try to contact some of the heirs but I think most are deceased. Thanks again to you, Nancy, and DT.
Kyle Nuttall said:
Hi Charles,
Just drilling a well isn't usually going to keep most leases alive. The well has to produce in paying quantities, and the royalty owners must be paid. If not, the lease will usually expire at the end of the primary term. I've seen a few leases that could be kept alive because of language that requires the lessor to notify the lessee of non-compliance with the lease terms, then give the lessee time to comply. But we can cross that bridge if we come to it.
Nancy and DT have given you some excellent advice on how to figure out whether there was a well on the property, and whether that well is producing, and about what you need to do to determine whether payments have or have not been made.
If you do contact other heirs, they may know whether a well was drilled, and if so, the API number to the well.
If you end up in a fight with the oil and gas company about whether the lease is still in existence, get in touch with me. I'm a WV attorney.
Charles, I live in North Carolina but have inherited mineral/royalty interests in Ritchie County, just south of Tyler.
Charles B Towles said:
Thanks Nancy! Are you located in Tyler CTY?? I will let you know if we are successful with our search! Have a great day!!
Nancy Mosley said:
You could go here http://ims.wvgs.wvnet.edu/wvog/viewer.htm On the left, click on the Base Layers folder and select Tax Districts, Highways, and other things to help locate your area.
Find Tyler County, and keep clicking on the area where your wife's interest is, until you get small enough to know it is on her property (if you can). When you get small enough, you will see numbers which are the well numbers (API system where he beginning is 47-095 for West Virginia - Tyler County). If you click on the red "i" then click on the number it will pop up a small screen with well information.
If you get that far and are certain it is on your property, you can see if it is still producing by clicking on the API number on the pop up, then in the Pipeline part of the next screen, click on All Data. It will then show production information if there is any.
About getting the original lease: As far as I know, the only way to get information from Tyler County is in person at the courthouse. Do you live in the area? I was lucky in my searching for information long distance by being able to call the Ritchie county clerk's office before things became busy (about 2 years ago) and getting questions answered, deeds and leases looked up, and being able to order things by mail that way. Now Ritchie county has deeds, leases, etc. from July 1985 to present available online, searching is free. For older information, I can still order deeds and leases if I know which book and page they start on, and order index pages for a name I want and an approximate date. Perhaps Tyler county would let you do that. If you want more help, you can ask me either here or privately. For some counties, records go back further, making long distance searching easier. It still costs at least $1.00 per page for a print copy of the document, well worth it.
The do-it-yourself approach is sometimes complicated and like detective work but interesting. Also not as legal as an official search by a landman or especially an attorney, but sometimes all you need to get the document(s).
Charles B Towles said:
Thanks Kyle, I'll probably need some help with this. The tax ticket does not indicate that it is leased but I find it hard to believe that none of the heirs checked into it! How could I obtain a copy of the original lease? I'll try to contact some of the heirs but I think most are deceased. Thanks again to you, Nancy, and DT.
Charles, I just had another thought on finding out if there is any production on this property. If your wife is paying the property taxes, she has the right to ask the county tax department (probably best to ask the assessor's office) if there is any production reported for that property. Also they should know if there are any producing wells on it, and if so, the API numbers. That is how the tax assessment is set. As I understand the process, when a property is leased, that is reported to the assessor's office by the company. Then when a well is drilled, that is also reported. When the well produces and royalty paid, the West Virginia State tax department is told how much is reported for a royalty owner, so that the county can be told, so the assessment can be increased. There is some formula they use. Then the assessed value is multiplied by the local tax rate to get the property tax amount, sent out in July of each year. A property with no production, whether leased or not, has a lower assessment. There is about a 2 year lag in this. Contact the Tyler County Assessor and see what you find out, or maybe your wife will need to do it.
A thought on the lease itself: perhaps the Title Opinion stated the Lease Book number and page? if so, you might be able to get the lease from the Tyler County Clerk's office with that information. If the lease has been assigned, that information might be noted on the lease by the Clerk's office, maybe not.
Charles, so the minerals were being taxed? That makes sense, since it was leased in 1987. It was mostly the mineral tracts that got severed off around the 1900s that got lost.
BTW, when I said I was the only professional (see above) I didn't mean to disparage anybody else. Just that I think I'm the only attorney/landman doing work for mineral and surface owners that spends much time on this forum. I certainly learn new things every day on the forum, and from DT and Nancy on a regular basis.
Thanks Nancy: I read your lasr two posts and we do have the deed book number and page number so I will call the county. This is great information!
Nancy Mosley said:
Charles, I just had another thought on finding out if there is any production on this property. If your wife is paying the property taxes, she has the right to ask the county tax department (probably best to ask the assessor's office) if there is any production reported for that property. Also they should know if there are any producing wells on it, and if so, the API numbers. That is how the tax assessment is set. As I understand the process, when a property is leased, that is reported to the assessor's office by the company. Then when a well is drilled, that is also reported. When the well produces and royalty paid, the West Virginia State tax department is told how much is reported for a royalty owner, so that the county can be told, so the assessment can be increased. There is some formula they use. Then the assessed value is multiplied by the local tax rate to get the property tax amount, sent out in July of each year. A property with no production, whether leased or not, has a lower assessment. There is about a 2 year lag in this. Contact the Tyler County Assessor and see what you find out, or maybe your wife will need to do it.
A thought on the lease itself: perhaps the Title Opinion stated the Lease Book number and page? if so, you might be able to get the lease from the Tyler County Clerk's office with that information. If the lease has been assigned, that information might be noted on the lease by the Clerk's office, maybe not.
In the case of obtaining a lease, we were able to contact Energy Corp. who had an active lease on one property we had and they sent us a copy. That lease showed a map, the well and the number of it and such. The catch was we had to be one of the current heirs listed on their records as a lesser, before they would send it. The privacy laws will prevent them from giving you many answers unless you are on their paperwork. I think they use the privacy act in their favor so they don't give you too much info. I may have missed it but what state do you live in? You may get lucky by contacting the courthouse. They are flooded with land agents that they curtail how much time the agents are allowed in there. I have a friend who lives 2 blocks from the courthouse and he says it's like a circus to get in there.
Another thought: if you find an API number and want a well map (shows the tract, where the well is, surrounding wells, and a page or two of well record stating what depth had what stuff, which I don't understand) you can contact Debbie here:
They can email well map and record for $3 per well (that was price when I last ordered). This goes back to when they first started issuing permits, in about 1927. Even plugged and dry hole wells have permits if they were assigned an API number which they were if drilled since then. You might find old wells on the tract where your wife owns minerals.
Thanks Nancy and DT! I talked with the CTY Clerk yesterday and they have the lease on file and I ordered a copy. I'[[ be calling them today to find out about any wells that have been drilled since 1987.
Another thought: if you find an API number and want a well map (shows the tract, where the well is, surrounding wells, and a page or two of well record stating what depth had what stuff, which I don't understand) you can contact Debbie here:
They can email well map and record for $3 per well (that was price when I last ordered). This goes back to when they first started issuing permits, in about 1927. Even plugged and dry hole wells have permits if they were assigned an API number which they were if drilled since then. You might find old wells on the tract where your wife owns minerals.
That sounds like good news. Keep us informed on any info that would help our site. I am curious to know how they are keeping that lease going. They have to be paying or have paid some monies out somewhere or they never filed proper paperwork. As you get more involved you will notice that the oil/gas dealings remind you of trying to deal with a "car salesman" LOL Everyone have a great Memorial Day and remember those folks who served and are serving now, for the rights we have in the USA. We sometimes take for granted those freedoms we have while we go through the challenges of everyday life. Don't forget the folks in Moore Ok. in your prayers also. Amen