My husband and I recently purchased mineral rights from my cousins that they inherited from my uncle. The KC county clerk will not file the transferred mineral deed without having my uncle’s will probated in Colorado (he lived and died in Texas and his will was probated in Texas). We have had to no problems from the many other counties in Colorado…only Kit Carson county. KC is insisting on us hiring a KC local atty to file and probate the will in Colorado. I am stumped at what to do…the minerals there are producing but not at a rate that would balance out paying for an atty, filing, etc. Does anyone have any suggestions? I actually feel that the county clerk there WANTS to frustrate mineral owners to the extent of tying up the interests in legal fees to the point of the owner giving up and the county puts the mineral rights on the auction block. I only say this because it HAS happened to another family member of ours. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
There are couple of issues in this post.
1) Technically the only way to fully and legally transfer mineral owners through death is to probate the will/estate in every county the decedent owned minerals (real property) in. This can be very easy and inexpensive in some states and counties and very expensive in others. If it's possible, and you don't want to have a cloud on your ownership, the will should be probated.
Until you probate the uncle's will in each county technically you didn't buy anything from the cousins, as your late Uncle is still the legal owner, even though he has passed, the ownership legally doesn't pass until the will/estate is probated in each county of property ownership.
There are a few ways to get around probating a will, but none as legally binding as probating a will. some examples include filing a "statement of ownership". Another is to file a copy of his will as it was probated in the county he lived at in Texas.
Some oil companies won't pay any owners that come after a decedent with out a probated will/estate. (they put payments into an escrow account)
2) It's the not the County Clerk/Recorder's job to say what can and can not be filed or what should or should not be recorded. There are some that are "over enthusiastic". They can't tell you you can't file a document or that it's not a proper document (that's a legal judgement!) as long as it's an original document.
Hope that helps you a little.
Daniel why do you have to Probate the will in each county of Colorado? Why can't you just do one Probate for the Whole State of Colorado? I own Mineral Rights that I inherited in Two or Three Counties in Colorado (Kit Carson being one).
Bruce
In Colorado, in order to properly update the title where minerals were solely in the name of the deceased, you must complete probate in Colorado, but generally you only need to do one probate in Colorado which probate process can then be used for each of the other counties in Colorado. There are some avenues to minimize costs depending on the situation, but it just depends. You might also take a look at this blog - http://www.mineralrightsforum.com/profiles/blogs/mineral-title-curative-in-Colorado
The information is for general information purposes only. This should not be substituted for legal advice and should not be taken as legal advice for any individual case or situation. This information is not intended to create, and receipt or reading does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. You are encouraged to contact an attorney for legal advice concerning the information provided.
Hi Jenna
Thanks for chiming in here and confirming my thoughts. Still thinking what to do with my situation (Colorado and Nebraska). Looks like I will have to pay all legal fees and everyone else will benefit ( I own the smallest part of the pie). Will be in touch when I decide.
Thanks
Bruce
Thank you Daniel. I appreciate your feedback and your suggestions. I’ll see what I can get done with your suggestions. Kim
Daniel Dayton said:
There are couple of issues in this post.
1) Technically the only way to fully and legally transfer mineral owners through death is to probate the will/estate in every county the decedent owned minerals (real property) in. This can be very easy and inexpensive in some states and counties and very expensive in others. If it’s possible, and you don’t want to have a cloud on your ownership, the will should be probated.
Until you probate the uncle’s will in each county technically you didn’t buy anything from the cousins, as your late Uncle is still the legal owner, even though he has passed, the ownership legally doesn’t pass until the will/estate is probated in each county of property ownership.
There are a few ways to get around probating a will, but none as legally binding as probating a will. some examples include filing a “statement of ownership”. Another is to file a copy of his will as it was probated in the county he lived at in Texas.
Some oil companies won’t pay any owners that come after a decedent with out a probated will/estate. (they put payments into an escrow account)
2) It’s the not the County Clerk/Recorder’s job to say what can and can not be filed or what should or should not be recorded. There are some that are “over enthusiastic”. They can’t tell you you can’t file a document or that it’s not a proper document (that’s a legal judgement!) as long as it’s an original document.
Hope that helps you a little.
Thank you Jenna. I went to your link and read your info. I will look into probating his will in Colorado, but hell will freeze over before I spend ANY money in Kit Carson County. We used to drive through that county on our way up to Colorado, but from now on we will drive the long way around to avoid it…that’s how rude they are.
I wouldn’t mind looking at filing it in any of the other counties in Colorado that have been pleasant to deal with. I still don’t understand why the other 6 counties have given us no problem at all, but perhaps the clerk in Kit Carson is like Daniel said, a “little over enthusiastic”.
Thanks again. I really appreciate your help. I’ll see what we can get accomplished.
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Jenna H. Keller said:
In Colorado, in order to properly update the title where minerals were solely in the name of the deceased, you must complete probate in Colorado, but generally you only need to do one probate in Colorado which probate process can then be used for each of the other counties in Colorado. There are some avenues to minimize costs depending on the situation, but it just depends. You might also take a look at this blog - http://www.mineralrightsforum.com/profiles/blogs/mineral-title-cura…
The information is for general information purposes only. This should not be substituted for legal advice and should not be taken as legal advice for any individual case or situation. This information is not intended to create, and receipt or reading does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. You are encouraged to contact an attorney for legal advice concerning the information provided.
Just to clarify - two parts to the title when one is deceased:
1. Probate - Probate would only need to be completed in one court in Colorado, BUT
2. Recording - Documents from that one probate court need to be recorded in each County where the property is located.
Kim McKinney said:
Thank you Jenna. I went to your link and read your info. I will look into probating his will in Colorado, but hell will freeze over before I spend ANY money in Kit Carson County. We used to drive through that county on our way up to Colorado, but from now on we will drive the long way around to avoid it.....that's how rude they are.
I wouldn't mind looking at filing it in any of the other counties in Colorado that have been pleasant to deal with. I still don't understand why the other 6 counties have given us no problem at all, but perhaps the clerk in Kit Carson is like Daniel said, a "little over enthusiastic".
Thanks again. I really appreciate your help. I'll see what we can get accomplished.
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Jenna H. Keller said:In Colorado, in order to properly update the title where minerals were solely in the name of the deceased, you must complete probate in Colorado, but generally you only need to do one probate in Colorado which probate process can then be used for each of the other counties in Colorado. There are some avenues to minimize costs depending on the situation, but it just depends. You might also take a look at this blog - http://www.mineralrightsforum.com/profiles/blogs/mineral-title-cura...
The information is for general information purposes only. This should not be substituted for legal advice and should not be taken as legal advice for any individual case or situation. This information is not intended to create, and receipt or reading does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. You are encouraged to contact an attorney for legal advice concerning the information provided.
Kim,
I am part of a land and mineral rights owners group that includes members in Kit Carson, Cheyenne, Lincoln, and Kiowa counties. I have land in Kit Carson county... We are looking for additional members to join our group. This group binds us all together and allows us to be able to negotiate a fair lease as a group.
Please take a look at our web site, www.secoro.org. Jordan is very good at distributing information on the current plays that are in our area, and the latest on information on other plays of similar size.
If you know anyone else that may still have un-leased mineral rights, feel free to send them the information as well.
Cheers,
Frank