Does anybody have a general idea of what method of billing or the way a Land person does their work in regards to researching the ownership of a piece of property. Do they charge by the hour, job, property, or document that they have to research? When they do the research, will they be able to make certified copies for the customer of the important documents since they would be at the County Clerks Office where all these documents are filed that trace the ownership for their records or is this considered an extra job on their part? Does the customer get a detailed chain of transactions to show their ownership percentage or is it presented in the form of a finished report with just your ownership percentage? Any insight would be helpful to us owners so as we may ask the right questions on when hiring a Land man/woman. I'm sure they all have different levels of reporting and pricing and customers have different needs to accomplish but I think this information would be very helpful to the average Mineral Owner, Thanks.
Derek, Landmen/women usually charge by the hour and include travel and document expenses, so it's important to find someone you can trust and does work in your area. I always run my own records, but I would use a family friend if there was a need. Unfortunately, most of the good land people I know are over worked by the companies right now and not doing work for individuals. If you do find someone to run the records for you they will provide you with all the necessary records to prove or disprove your mineral interests. Most documents do cost per page and that cost will be part of your expenses. You may want to find an Oklahoma attorney who can help you, because they will have a paralegal run the records and the attorney will guide you through the legal process. Personally, I would contact Attorney Charles L. McBride in Stillwater, OK as he may be able to recommend a landperson or another attorney who is there in Stillwater. Mr. McBride is a real property attorney who once practiced oil and gas law and his number is 405-624-9990.
Thank you Martha, I have heard the term " Run the Records " used before and was curious of what a more detailed of that term would encompass? When I get on the Payne County Clerks web site it explains the that any documents before the year 2000 have to be viewed in their office and unfortunately most of my documents are much older than 2000. You mentioned most documents cost per page and they would provide a customer with all the necessary records to prove or disprove the mineral interests, I am interested in getting "certified copies" of the documents for my records, is this something that the Land Men do also during their research once they have established the correct documents? I have no problem paying someone that does this for their living to do for me but I was just interested in how their process works in order to know what I'm paying for without having a large list of extras to be added to the bill if it's something they normally do in the process of their job? ;-)
Derek, A land person will get you the copies of the filed records. You can get the County Register (Recorder) of Deeds special stamp attesting to authenticity and the land person can get the copies stamped for you. I have no idea how involved and costly running the records will be for your particular minerals as some tracts have a few mineral owners with little transfer of ownership and some have hundreds of owners who have transferred, sold, conveyed, swapped, divided, and quit claimed so many times their minerals are recorded on entire books instead of pages. Just get a local land person and/or attorney who are close to the courthouse(s) so they don't charge you for long distance travel, meals, hotels, etc. The only other way to do it is go to the courthouse yourself and ask the clerks to help you.
I'll take a shot at answering your questions. Generally you will be charged a "day rate". Yes, they can make certified copies, they cost $1.00 per page. You don't need them if they are good at creating the chain of title and frankly, you probably only want to know what you own, remember, "the world doesn't want to hear about the labor pains, they just want to see the baby". Be sure they report "net mineral acres" to you, don't hire a land (wo)man that reports percentages of tracts, that's old school, and confusing to some folks. Before you hire them, ask them to explain how "NPRC's" affect, (or is it effect) your interest, don't worry about what an NPRC is, just listen to their answer and see if they are confident in their ability, then hire them. Expect to pay a minimum of $300 per day for their work, more for a good one. I've hired several and realized that i can do the research myself and make my own decisions.
I have learned the average mineral owner has no idea they own minerals but after 15 minutes of reading blog posts, feel empowered to tell their friend that they are in the oil business yet, can't tell the difference between an ORRI and a WI. Thanks for letting me rant my 2 cents worth of info about your question, I enjoyed myself.......
Randy Wedel, I don't know any reputable land person who only reports percentages of tracts. When I worked at Chesapeake we were overrun with applications from landman/women and you could hire them for little to nothing, but I have no idea what the good ones are charging now. My family owns a large mineral holding trust with over 600 mineral tracts in 5 different states that I operated for about 25 years. We also had a little oil and gas business and participated with our working interest in many wells, so I agree that running your own records is the way to go, but I might get certified copies if I had to use someone I didn't know, was not familiar with the industry, lived out of state and didn't understand overriding royalty interests and non-participating royalty interests.
Thank you Martha and Randy for the valuable information, since I live on the West Coast and I'm currently taking care of my 90 year young parents I couldn't go to Payne County very easily and this forum has been a savior for educating the public enough to know that the professionals in the industry are needed in many cases to make sure things are done correctly to protect our interests for future Heirs. I happen to be the only child of 3 that has 2 children to pass these Mineral rights onto which should keep it from diluting out any further. I have been trying to read as many blogs that pertain to NPRI because that is what my Mother signed over to me in 2002 but know that the Oil co. says she still has interest I'm wondering if she still has some other kind of Mineral rights to the same property that she didn't know when she assigned the NPRI but may have accidently kept some control which is paying her also which is not what she wanted. Is the a way of explaining the different "Royalty Interest" positions of control ???? It is a little confusing. I have done a search on this forum by putting in the term, "NPRI" and the way it's been explained was to broken up and used terms that made it difficult to grasp. Derek
Derek
Payne County is a rich history lesson in NPRI's. Jim Arrington and Thomas Berry were known for buying land and acquiring minerals by convincing the seller to sell and the seller would keep an NPRI of, for instance an 1/8, with the idea that the seller of the surface would keep forever 1/8 (or some percentage of 1/8, like 1/3 of 1/8) of any production and the future land owner could negotiate a lease, keep the bonus money and any ORRI in excess of the 1/8 NPRI. Mr. Arrington and Mr. Berry would then sell the surface and retain the remaining mineral interest. Your deal sounds a bit different. You received an NPRI, but your mom kept the remaining rights.
So, assuming your mom owned the minerals and if your mom conveyed a NPRI to you, she likely does still retain some interest in the minerals in excess of the NPRI. If she subsequently negotiated a lease, she probably received any bonus money paid upon execution of a lease, and if she originally granted you, for instance, a 1/8 NPRI and negotiated a 3/16 ORRI lease, she got the bonus money, and will receive 1/16 of any production, you will get 1/8 and the grantee of the lease will get the other 13/16, pay all expenses of drilling, completion, production, etc.
Lots of "ifs" in the above, but hope this is helpful. I am a local Stillwater businessman with several hundred acres of minerals, have negotiated leases, pad sites, easements, participated in interest in wells, researched mineral interests, bought and sold minerals, etc. But, yet, I still consider myself a neophyte even though my hair is quite gray, but at least it is still growing........ If you need specific help, let me know and we can talk on the phone.
Let's hope Obama doesn't decide that the oil and gas needs his expertise like he thinks the health care business does, Obamacare, who knows, then Obamaoil.......... (Oops, wrong forum)
Randy, Sen. Tom Anglin was an attorney who traversed some of the same avenues to mineral ownership back in the day of Oklahoma Lieutenant Governor James Edward Berry. The Anglin family trust known as The Anglin Properties Trust holds almost all of the minerals acquired by Sen. Anglin. Good historical reading, thanks for the memories.
Thank you both for your insight! I want see how the "Chain of Title" ends up and follow through on having all the interests transferred into my name by the attorney in OK. Plus having certified copies of the necessary documents and a certified duplicate of the Mineral Deed sent to my house for safe keeping then start the next steps of forwarding the new ownership papers to Oil Co. I'm not sure if hiring a Landman to double check the attorney's work to see if anything may have been missed or overlooked is normal or not? Neither my Mother or I were sent any Lease paperwork and I sure would like to see the lease so we know what we signed a Division Order for? That may sound a little naïve but we are very inexperienced in what our rights are when we don't really know what we own for sure or what kind of Deeds they are if that makes any since, NPRI or "other" kinds? But rest assured I'm reading and educating myself as fast as possible! Is there a way to look up the Drilling INFO for: T18N, Range 2E, E 1/2, SW 1/4 or find out if it was a court ordered drilling or Pooling? Maybe even what the Oil Co. is paying in that area to see if we can work out if we signed a bad division order interest amount, not even sure if we were able to negotiate a lease? What else can the attorney help us accomplish would be also be important to know? Sorry for all the crazy questions friends......Derek
Makes no sense that you rec'd a DO, but do not recall seeing a lease. To get directly to info on a section, the web address of he OCC site is: http://imaging.occeweb.com/imaging/OGWellRecords.aspx
Use the section the wellbore is in, which is not necessarily the section you have minerals.
Hi Randy, it's not that I don't remember if we received a lease. We didn't receive a lease and as far as I remember I have never been sent or seen a lease, my Mother has some old paperwork that show communications between an old operator many years ago but not understanding the entire thing all the way back to the year 2002 when it was passed to me as a transfer of the ownership and the check just started coming in my name. As crazy as it sounds I only witnessed very little activity if any my Mother did with any oil Co. That's what has me confused after joining the Forum and reading all the Q & A that has been extremely informative about negotiations and the different approaches to take including the different rights of the land owners and the different rights of the mineral owners. I almost had the opinion in the beginning that we must own a special kind of "RI" that we are not included (legal rights) wise in that end of the dealings. That's why I've been so curious about the whole "OWNERSHIP RIGHTS" thing! I had no idea the depth to the entire subject or I would have been ALL OVER this from the beginning. I swear to you that my Mother stated to me just the other day that she has not received as much money since 1957 until now combined that would even come close to the one check she received the other day which was RI from Feb. 2012 to Dec. 2012 and she thought I had something to do with it because I took over as executor of their Living Trust/Estate, and the DPOA and Medical POA because of their age and failing health, both are 90 years young. We will never see a more independent and strong willed generation as my parents, in my opinion. My Grandfather on my Fathers side was a Blacksmith on the 1001 Ranch in OK. and our family goes back a long ways in OK on both my parents side. Anyhow once I understand what my rights are I will be managing whatever I am allowed to under the restrictions of the Deed position I'm in and have already been educating my 2 young adult children of the up coming responsibilities related to the ownership of the mineral rights they will be inheriting from their Great, Great Grandfather Clarence H. Stone. I tried to use the site you provided but with only the information I have from a check stub and not knowing the proper format to use to log in the location and in which order the Section/Township/Range are supposed go in I'm a duck out of water. It's the truth! I so much appreciate all the help from this forum and I'm willing to pay for professional help. I have hired an attorney in San Diego, Ca. to help me with the Living Trust concerns and recently another attorney in Stillwater, OK. to help with the Title research and to transfer the interest into my name like my Mother has requested. I do feel bound by the commitment to the OK. attorney until he has completed his job, but I will be hiring a Landman or attorney that has the owners best interest in mind for handling future negotiating leases and future research like an OLD Deed from Nobel Co. that my Great Grandfather passed all the way down to me from the 1800's. I'm just trying to get up to speed with the fundamentals of the industry to understand what I should be doing. Derek
See what your attorney comes up with, he has access to records and knowledge of law and history. With the info you have provided, it now sounds like there is an old lease that may be held by production. What is the Section your minerals are located in T18N-2E ? I'll look it up for you.
Oh thank you so much Randy!!! The way the Deed is written by my mother and recorded is: E 1/2, SW 1/4 Sec. 12, T18N, R2E. It is in book 1346, page 149-149. Recorded on 02-25-2002 in Payne County, OK.
There is a chance that when my Mother filled out the Deed signing it over to me that it was written incorrectly where the location is and may need to be cured. I am both of my parents DPOA and I have heard I would be able to legally transfer all the interests to myself if I just knew the proper location terminology and correct amount to have transferred. If that could be found out I would do it immediately! Is it legal to hire more than 1 person (attorney) or Landman to expedite the process due to some attorney's case load may hinder the urgency of this matter??? My Mothers name is Margie L. (Stone) Freeman and she received the interests from her Father Adali G. Stone which received the interests from his Father Clarence H. Stone that held the original Land Patent from the U.S. Congress through the "Homestead Act".
Randy I have sent you a friend request so as I my talk to you in more detail through private messaging, please except. My cell Ph# is 619-850-2630, email is [email protected]