I have been trying to prove to Oklahoma Unclaimed Property that my father is the person whose unclaimed property is being held at the Oklahoma Treasury. I have already submitted a copy of the mineral deeds he bought; proved he was a resident of the town at the time and submitted an affidavit of heirship from a certified genealogist that we are his lawful descendants, but my contact wants me to connect him with the the deeds themselves.
The deeds, however, are from 1937 and simply say “R. C. Weber of Pittsburgh County.” There are no signatures or address on the deed copies that I can link to my father. Were they there on the originals? Who would have them? At this point would a title search lead to old documents that include his name, address and occupation on the deed or should I hire a private investigator? I would appreciate any help you can give me.
Thank you so much!
Hopefully other experts in the area (Oklahoma) can give more guidance. The original deeds should be available at the Pittsburgh County clerks office, you say you already have copies so the copies should be the same as the originals. If you are in OK you could search the records yourself, if not you would have to get a landman or someone else to search the records to see if they mineral rights were still owned by your father. I had to deal with the OK Treasurer’s office dealing with my grandfather’s minerals income several years ago, they don’t make it easy. I can’t recommend an investigator or lawyer because the one’s we had did a very poor job and cost us a lot of time and money. I’m not clear on exactly where you stand with the Treasurer’s Office. Have they agreed that you are the heir and you are only trying to prove that your father still owned the mineral rights which would pass to you? Maybe one of the experts on the subject (there are a number on this forum) can tell you more. We had to get an investigator and lawyer because our parents estate was not probated in OK, we and they lived in CA, so we had to go through probate in OK.
Thanks for your comment, John. My dad invested in two mineral rights properties and then moved out of state. Last year I was offered a lease on one of the properties on the basis of a professional genealogist’s work saying my brother, sister and I were the legitimate heirs.
When we discovered that the properties had unclaimed properties (the oil wells became active after his death), I began the process of applying for it. My contact has been cordial but has not accepted the affidavit of heirship as proof that dad bought the mineral rights. I have submitted proof he lived in McAlester at the time, but my contact said there were many people with the same name who could have bought the mineral rights. But without his signature on the deed, his occupation (he managed the S H Kress store) or his address I am at a loss how to connect him to the deeds or the purchases.
I have submitted claims to OK for my grandmother’s unclaimed funds on behalf of my cousins and my mother’s estate, and only for my mother’s estate, and found that one must submit copious amounts of paperwork.
One thing I don’t see that you have submitted is a copy of your father’s will and final probate, and they normally want to see that the property was included in probate, or you may need to work with an attorney to transfer that property via probate or heirship. Interesting - I’ve never been asked to provide copies of mineral deeds (probably because we could show that the property was in the final probate list). I have obtained copies of many deeds from a number of OK counties, and I’ve never seen an address or occupation on any of them. Some have signatures, and some have the names typed.
As for “original deeds,” if they aren’t in the county records and you don’t have copies, then they may no longer exist. Did your father ever execute a signed Oil & Gas Lease? That could help prove a business relationship and his ownership, and may be filed in the county. Pittsburgh County has records from Oct 1989 at okcountyrecords.com, and anything before that should be at the clerk’s office.
Without any other documents, you might need to go the will & probate route, after consulting with an OK attorney who understands probate and mineral rights.
Thank you, BG. Unfortunately, my father died without a will and without probate. The income from his mineral rights only began to come in after he died and therefore we have no receipts. We also cannot find the original deeds in the papers he left behind. He probably just thought it was a bad investment. Thanks for your comments!
My experience is that they are going to want to see a probate. You said your father moved out of state, if your father’s estate went through probate in another state that might be accepted BUT if, like my parents, there was a family trust and no probate (as we had in CA), you will probably need a lawyer and a simple (known as expedited) probate and it will have to show the mineral rights. Did your father’s estate show the mineral rights in a probate, trust, will, or other document? I understand the problem of multiple people we the same name, we had a similar problem. I had my father’s Social Security card and CA driver’s license which helped. Unfortunately, as you said, many deeds do not have much information on them. I had to get a landman to go to the county (Kingfisher) clerk’s office to research the chain of deeds, there were several sections and things got complicated. You said the wells were not active during your fathers life, were they in the process (being drilled), if so there would be leases, division orders, etc.
You can try www.OKCountyRecords.com and do a search of the records yourself. Their plans start at around $25.00. A free search only shows instruments back to the 1970’s. Paid plans may show instruments back to patent. It looks like your Heirship Affidavit for R.C. Weber aka Roy Clyde Weber was recorded on 3/1/2021 and is recorded in Book 2510 at pages 14 & 15. Heirship Affidavits if composed properly offer great information but usually aren’t sufficient to transfer mineral rights out of estates and into the heirs. You can hire a landman to run mineral title on the lands. Cost could be anywhere from $250.00 - $400.00 x’s the number of days it takes the landman to run the title. Once the mineral title has been performed, it sounds like you’ll need an attorney to do some probate work for you to get the mineral interests conveyed out of your dad’s estate and into the heirs. I say “sounds like” because I’m not an attorney and I’m not familiar with Oklahoma OG law. Best of luck.
EXACTLY! That is pretty much what we had to do and I would add that when you look for a lawyer find one that specializes in minerals cases and has good reviews. Our attorney wasn’t very familiar with minerals and it cost us more and wasted a bunch of times and then he didn’t provide all the necessary documentation which caused more problems.
You may also want to see if your father signed any leases that were filed of record. In addition, old records such as pay stubs or 1099s related to the property may be beneficial. Instead of $25 fee to view, you may purchase tokens to print suspect instruments for $1 per page.
Haramoni:
Mr. Moran & Looking@Posts are absolutely correct. I will add that the document filed at the county clerk’s office is the same as the original, so no need to search for that. As a landman for 35+ years, the county clerk’s office is a trove of information. I will give you one suggestion and that is to go to what is called the Reception Index. It will show who filed the deed and the address to where the deed was to be returned. This may or may not show an address for R.C. Weber. Another helpful tool is to go to the local library and research the City Directories to see who lived where and when. There are many options, but if all of these fail, you will be relegated to doing a Probate & probably a Quiet Title. Good Luck.
If you do a probate, I recommend you do it in the county where the minerals are located or the last county he lived in while in OK. A probate outside of the larger counties like OK County or Tulsa will usually be faster and cost less. Hopefully there is a paper somewhere–perhaps the County Treasurer–that shows an old address so you can prove he was a resident of that county at one time. Does anyone in the family have a copy of his obituary? Check Familysearch.org (it’s a free site) for old addresses or school records of his children. If his wife survived him, you will have to include a probate for her; they can be done together. Perhaps that genealogist can provide you with some of the articles used to determine the succession.
The probate statutes are very clear as to where the case should be filed. If he lived in Oklahoma at the time of his death, then it must be filed in the county of his residence. If he died outside of Oklahoma then it can be filed in any county where the property is located.
As always, my posts are not legal advice nor do they create an attorney-client relationship.
I have a ? somewhat along this line. I have been searching my family leases etc… I have come across a QT on the some of the properties and would like to understand how QT works in OK involving sub minerals. It appears somehow a person is able to QT the Oil & Gas leases too? If you have the time to explain, it would be a god send. Google search has been fruitless.
You have to actually read the QT document to see what portion of the “title” they are quieting. The Petition will set out what they are wanting to do. The Order will set forth what was done. I can’t make any comment without actually reading the document.
I just found it in an old news paper w a family members info, It includes QT’ing the lease. I wasn’t aware the lease could be Qt’d. I guess OK is different?