We used ancillary probate to deed mineral rights into a family trust a few years ago. Now, the trustee has passed and I am the successor trustee. What, if anything, is required of us through the court system in Oklahoma? (Mineral rights are in Hughes county)
No ownership has changed, only that I need to be recognized as trustee. I am having difficulties satisfying the documentation a particular company is demanding and they have suspended our royalty payments. I have sent pages of the Testamentary Trust and a notarized Certification of Trust naming me as Successor. The rep at the company tells me she “doesn’t know what documents she is looking at” because this is a testamentary trust, embedded within the will. She insists I must provide a separate trust document, not contained within the will which does not exist in this case. Our out of state attorney absolutely disagrees with her but I realize OK does it’s own thing.
Second question if appropriate here, once we get this settled, are we entitled to interest on the withheld payments?
This has been dragging on since September 2023 since this particular company has not been good about replying to my numerous emails and phone calls but excellent at giving me the brush off.
The attorney we used for the ancillary probate seems to have disappeared so if we need a new attorney I’d love some recommendations. I checked in the pro directory here but there are none listed in OK.
I tend to agree with your state attorney. Testamentary trusts are trusts created within a last will and testament. Unfortunately, they tend to be sparce on details that are common in a stand-alone trust. However, in most cases this shouldn’t cause title issues especially if you were listed as the successor trustee.
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Just a “stall tactic”! You are going to have to “force” them to pay you. Maybe try to get a local oil and gas attorney in the City where the Company is located. That way if you have to go to court the attorney you use want have to spend hours traveling to court and you have to pay for their time. Just a thought. Get’em!
It’s nice to hear that someone else agrees this should be sufficient and probably not warrant a 'quiet title" lawsuit, as the company has suggested. I forgot and left out that bit in my original post. It seems like this woman I’m trying to work with is just enjoying being a jerk for some reason.
I have had no response to my most recent emails thus far…crickets for the past two days. Seems to be how they operate.
What recourse do I have with these people? Financial advisor suggested filing a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau which at this point I am only too happy to do since I can’t get a response from them. We want our payments.
You need to file a memorandum of trust. It is essentially an affidavit that lays out the facts.
A was trustee.
A died on 1/1/2023.
Pursuant to article 3( or whatever) B is now the trustee.
It should include all your legal descriptions so it can be recorded in Hughes county.
Now asked to the advice that you secure local count local local attorney in the county where you plan to pursue the action, I would advise against this. You need a specialist, such as an experienced oil and gas attorney.
There are several listed in the directory at the top of the page.
I do not think that filing such complaint will do anything since the company will respond that there is a title issue. You need an OK oil and gas / title attorney to review the recorded trust deed and advise you whether or not an additional filing is needed. It might be that you need to file the will in the deed records which would serve the purpose of making the trust of record. Or it might be that you need to record the Certification of Trust naming you as successor trustee. Whether or not any additional filings are necessary, then the OK attorney can talk directly with the legal department at the oil company. A quiet title lawsuit proposal seems odd as the tax entity is continuing. I am assuming that the trust is still using the EIN number issued by the IRS and is not operating under someone’s social security number. This seems to have gone beyond do-it-yourself and requires knowledge of OK law, which is not something I know about.
Yes, same EIN number. The trust is already the owner of record in Hughes County. But maybe there’s something I need to file in the court now that the original trustee has passed. The company I am dealing with never asked for anything like that though. She just wanted pages of the trust that showed I was successor trustee. When I sent the testamentary trust pages, she said she didn’t know what that was and she wouldn’t accept it. If she had told me any of this other stuff was needed I would have proceeded immediately with an attorney. That’s why this has been so frustrating, and esp since it’s been going on since September. I probably just need an attorney at this point.
Yes, we completed Ancillary probate in OK in 2022 and the company I’m referring to began sending us our royalties. When my mother died, I became Successor. When we needed to move our ACH to a new bank, the person at the company questioned the testamentary trust docs I sent upon her request. Said she “didn’t know what she was looking at.” Since then they have suspended our payments.
Just seems odd to me. All she asked for were the trust pages, which I promptly sent her.
Do you have all this communication in emails? What department and what is her position - landman, division order analyst, attorney, someone in royalty owner relations? Consider sending a certified letter to the legal department detailing the situation and ask for a legal reason why your royalties have been suspended. If you post the name of the company, there may be someone who can give you more specific advice.
Yes, this is all via email. We have also had a few conversations by phone which I usually follow up with an email saying “per our conversation here is the document you requested…”
The company is Trinity USG and this woman is in owner relations. I believe she is a supervisor.
According to their owner relations website, I have provided what they require for a trustee change. I didn’t want to involve attorneys if not necessary but when they don’t respond or don’t accept the documents with no clear explanation, I don’t know what else to do.
I’m not even sure how to reach the legal department as the only contact info I can find takes me to Owner Relations. I’ve called four different numbers that I found online and only get voicemail. Owner Relations are the ones who have been giving me the brush off for 8 months.
I have requested by email and voicemail to Owner Relations that the Trinity legal team contact my attorney. Crickets.
Winblad always provides solid advice and points out the need for thoughtful estate planning. A thought for you, If the CEO of a corporation dies and is replaced, then does the corporation have to file documentation in the county? Answer, no. The requirement is a resolution stating who is the new CEO authorized to act on behalf of the corporation. Push for the matter to be escalated. Your EIN has not changed, so the Trust should be considered the same entity. Keep pushing for the matter to be escalated.
No company lawyer will initiate a call to your attorney. They might respond to a call from your attorney. You should send a certified letter to the company addressed to the legal department asking why your documentation has been rejected and exactly what needed. Be sure to enclose a copy of the documents. Or you can have your lawyer send this letter. If you send the letter, address the letter also to the registered agent in OK who will be listed on OK corporation site and send that also certified mail. Cc your attorney. Your goal is to get past owner relations. Looking at web information, is this the same company located in Houston? If so, send a copy of letter to that address. Trinity Operating | Company
Yes, this is the company. Someone, from Owner Relations of course, returned my call on Friday. When I requested contact info for their so called “legal team” she said she “did not have” any contact information for them. She would have to refer me to “blank”, the woman who I’ve been trying to deal with for months now and getting nowhere. I am not sure I believe they even have a “legal team” at this point.
I’ve searched extensively online for a contact in OK and cannot find anything that looks reliable. All paths lead back to Owner Relations.
I also found a recent lawsuit regarding payment issues, Hoog v. Trinity. Now I’m wondering if this is related somehow. This is just completely weird and completely unprofessional on the part of Trinity. And why are they so secretive about providing contact info for anyone outside of Owner Relations.
I will work on a certified letter, with a memorandum of trust as mentioned above, with our family attorney, who is not in Oklahoma. I’m also contacting the attorneys from the Hoog lawsuit to see if we are part of that claim. The dates coincide with the start of our relationship with Trinity.
Thank you for the input.