In with the rest of the family on a 30 acre plot in Doddridge and was offered 1500/15% by Antero. Ya'll reckon this is an honest offer?
A lot depends on the location (wet gas) or (dry), however, it's not a bad offer. If I may ask, what district in Doddridge???
The Cove District
We own shared mineral rights in the McClellan district and Antero gave us an offer of $1000 per mineral acre and 12.5% royalties. I believe the original offer was presented to others in the family months ago. We just found out about it recently (I think we were the last ones contacted). I feel like the offer they gave us is low. Our landman said that since the others have already signed their contract as offered, he checked with his management and they are staying firm on their offer to us because "it would not be fair to the others". I don't believe it, but I don't know how to go about this. Our landman said something about there being 80 acres and we had a shared interest in two of the three tracts, both of which are about 17 acres - so 34 acres for us. My husband shares it with his two siblings and I don't know if there is anyone else. All three have yet to sign anything.
Any comments from anyone on how to proceed?
The offer is low, particular the 12.5, that number has been long standing for years. The numbers are now much higher. It sounds like you have done some research about bonus and royalty. YOU DO YOUR OWN NEGOTIATION WITH ANTERO, ITS THERE PROBLEM THAT THEY WAITED SO LONG TO CONTACT YOU. I have had the same problem with other companies, in other words, I DO MY OWN THING.
ARNOLD
Thanks, that is encouraging. I just found out that the one sibling signed. So there are just two of us remaining, now. The landman is getting anxious and wants to know what other questions I have. I did find out that our acreage is really low - less than 1/2 an acre of the 34 acre tract! With that small amount of acreage is it even worth sweating over it as much as I am?
Also, is it worth paying a lawyer to help us get the best lease when our interest is so small? I don't have a clue what such a small interest means in royalties.
Thanks!
Arnold L Stuart said:
The offer is low, particular the 12.5, that number has been long standing for years. The numbers are now much higher. It sounds like you have done some research about bonus and royalty. YOU DO YOUR OWN NEGOTIATION WITH ANTERO, ITS THERE PROBLEM THAT THEY WAITED SO LONG TO CONTACT YOU. I have had the same problem with other companies, in other words, I DO MY OWN THING.
ARNOLD
Even though your interest is low, I would still ask for a higher royalty interest. The going rate now is at least 14% you might even ask for more. ( I bet you will get it).
Arnold
Thanks! I did ask for more and we got a higher bonus and 15%. I have also asked for some other things and they have agreed to some and not to others.
Also, my sister-in-law has not signed, so there are still the three of us together on this. The way the landman worded it, "the sister has committed" made me think she had signed, but she had merely agreed over the phone to sign at the original offer before she heard from us that we wanted to ask for more.
Now we are in a time crunch to decide exactly which offer we will accept to handle our royalties from those we were presented with. I am going to post it as a new discussion, but it basically is is this:
Is it better to accept the Mineral Enhancement Clause with a 15% royalty OR ask for the first half of the Mineral Enhancement Clause only (minus everything after the "however") with a 14% royalty?
I have until tomorrow (Sunday) to decide what to do.
This is the Mineral Enhancement Clause:
It is agreed between the Lessor and Lessee that, notwithstanding any language herein to the contrary, all oil, gas or other proceeds accruing to the Lessor under this lease or by state law shall be without deduction, directly or indirectly, for the cost of producing, gathering, storing, separating, treating, dehydrating, compressing, processing, transporting, and marketing the oil, gas and other products produced hereunder to transform the
product into marketable form; however, any such costs which result in enhancing the value of the marketable oil, gas or other products to receive a better price may be deducted from Lessor's share of production so long as they are based on Lessee's actual cost of such enhancements. However, in no event shall Lessor receive a price that is less than, or more than, the price received by Lessee.
Thanks,
Stephanie
Arnold L Stuart said:
Even though your interest is low, I would still ask for a higher royalty interest. The going rate now is at least 14% you might even ask for more. ( I bet you will get it).
Arnold
Stephanie, what time crunch? Just because they say there is need for haste does not necessarily mean there is one, from your side. Maybe the landman means "he" needs to get this done before he looks bad? The landman has already lied to you.
A verbal agreement is worthless if no consideration has changed hands as it must to make any contract binding.
I think you are probably dealing with the worst stripe of landman who is using high pressure car salesmanship tactics on you.
I suggest you step back, take a breath, look at things objectively from all sides, decide not to make a decision until you are in posession of as many facts as are reasonably ascertainable, then take what you have to a TRUSTED lawyer, hopefully one with oil and gas experience. I really wish I were there to talk to this yahoo for you, he would have to explain in detail why there is a crunch, tell me why he thinks your relative made a contract with him and probably a half dozen other things I would think up on the fly.
I often tell people that they should only deal by mail so you have a record of everything that is said, and it's not too late, you can still do this! Tell him that you are starting over and all communication will be in writing, so you can run it all past your lawyer. Landmen are alot more careful about what they put in writing, especially when they know someone else other than the average mineral owner will be reading it. Stephanie, please consider this along with my reply to your other thread. Good luck.
R W, you are my hero right now! Thanks for your encouraging words! I agree that this guy is like a shifty car salesman and I don't trust him. That is why I have been mostly communicating with him by email so that I can have all his words in writing.
I wish I had the luxury of waiting it out, but unfortunately, in WV there is no forced pooling right now, so if you don't decide to lease, you really are left out. Plus, I am doing this for my husband's siblings as well, and I think they are so ready to have this over with that they want to sign it as soon as possible because they are so afraid of being left out and getting nothing.
We don't have much acreage at all, and I think that is part of what bothered the landman so much was why was I fighting so hard for something so little? My reason is I just want to do the best I can for my family.
Thanks again for your support and advice!
r w kennedy said:
Stephanie, what time crunch? Just because they say there is need for haste does not necessarily mean there is one, from your side. Maybe the landman means "he" needs to get this done before he looks bad? The landman has already lied to you.
A verbal agreement is worthless if no consideration has changed hands as it must to make any contract binding.
I think you are probably dealing with the worst stripe of landman who is using high pressure car salesmanship tactics on you.
I suggest you step back, take a breath, look at things objectively from all sides, decide not to make a decision until you are in posession of as many facts as are reasonably ascertainable, then take what you have to a TRUSTED lawyer, hopefully one with oil and gas experience. I really wish I were there to talk to this yahoo for you, he would have to explain in detail why there is a crunch, tell me why he thinks your relative made a contract with him and probably a half dozen other things I would think up on the fly.
I often tell people that they should only deal by mail so you have a record of everything that is said, and it's not too late, you can still do this! Tell him that you are starting over and all communication will be in writing, so you can run it all past your lawyer. Landmen are alot more careful about what they put in writing, especially when they know someone else other than the average mineral owner will be reading it. Stephanie, please consider this along with my reply to your other thread. Good luck.
Stephanie, WV attorney here. r w kennedy is right, there is never a real time crunch. I worked as a landman. I know.
I can give you just a little advice here. Make sure you get a No Warranty of Title clause and an Indemnification clause. It's not perfect, but it'll cover your backside in certain situations later. And they'll rarely balk at those requests. Keep negotiating. Get everybody in the family on the same page. You have more negotiating power when you have more acreage.
What exactly does the No Warranty of Title clause and an Indemnification clause mean, Klye? I am not very knowledgeable when it come to all this, but I have already jumped in back in 2006. See my comments from today about my latest "venture".
No Warranty of Title means that you're not guaranteeing that you own the mineral rights. Indemnification means that they will take all the responsibility for any actions on the property. They will have standard language, wording that they use, and so far the standard language I've seen from other companies for both of those clauses has been just fine.
Great information Kyle. I'm just getting into this for my family as well. From the State of WA so we really are new to this. I've been advised by the land owner that we ask for no fees, No Warranty of Title, and negotiate for a better deal. Can you put this Mineral Enhancement Clause in plain english for me? Thanks
Kyle Nuttall said:
No Warranty of Title means that you're not guaranteeing that you own the mineral rights. Indemnification means that they will take all the responsibility for any actions on the property. They will have standard language, wording that they use, and so far the standard language I've seen from other companies for both of those clauses has been just fine.
I suspect that the Mineral Enhancement Clause details the post-production costs that they want to deduct from your royalty. Without actually looking at it I wouldn't want to speculate too much, though.
Diane Hinchliff Hesse said:
Great information Kyle. I'm just getting into this for my family as well. From the State of WA so we really are new to this. I've been advised by the land owner that we ask for no fees, No Warranty of Title, and negotiate for a better deal. Can you put this Mineral Enhancement Clause in plain english for me? Thanks
Kyle Nuttall said:No Warranty of Title means that you're not guaranteeing that you own the mineral rights. Indemnification means that they will take all the responsibility for any actions on the property. They will have standard language, wording that they use, and so far the standard language I've seen from other companies for both of those clauses has been just fine.
George, are you still looking at this lease?
Kyle Nuttall said:
I suspect that the Mineral Enhancement Clause details the post-production costs that they want to deduct from your royalty. Without actually looking at it I wouldn't want to speculate too much, though.
Diane Hinchliff Hesse said:Great information Kyle. I'm just getting into this for my family as well. From the State of WA so we really are new to this. I've been advised by the land owner that we ask for no fees, No Warranty of Title, and negotiate for a better deal. Can you put this Mineral Enhancement Clause in plain english for me? Thanks
Kyle Nuttall said:No Warranty of Title means that you're not guaranteeing that you own the mineral rights. Indemnification means that they will take all the responsibility for any actions on the property. They will have standard language, wording that they use, and so far the standard language I've seen from other companies for both of those clauses has been just fine.
As i read all of the posts and folks who are new to this process i get to shaking my head. I myself was a newbee and very curious of all this leasing. My family was informed of mineral rights wanting to be leased. I did alot of research and contacted all family i could and and became the informing person and tried to negotiate the best deal possible for all. Several heirs were out of state and i kept them informed and told them i would keep them informed. I asked them not to sign a company lease until we could get language and monies that would be good for us.. Yeah right. You are on your own when it comes to looking out for family. The land agents will get to them one way or another and the another is flashing $$$ in their face. They twist, lie, conive and tell anything to an heir to get that signature. They always try to make you think that you are the only one that has not signed. Get as much language in and taken out as possible. Warrant of title out indemnification in as mentioned. Watch out for the affidavit they try to get you to sign saying you are the mineral owner. They try to get this paper signed when you get them to take out the warrant of title clause out. Last we heard from these people they had sneaked and lied and got heirs to sign leases with no changes. Not good. Last offer was 1700/15%. There is no time line. They just want to get you signed on a lease because some other company might beat them to it. Their philososphy is get the signature and then get the facts later. After all, if you signed a company lease, with no changes, you guaranteed it was all checked out and you said so!!!
Great advice! We only own the mineral rights and the surface owners have already signed leases so I think we're sort of stuck. How would I know? Either way 90% of us, the ones known, have pretty much agreed that a lawyer is the only way to go. Especially where we're so far away.
Surface and mineral rights are two different ballgames them being in the dark and you in the light. The surface folks are only wishing they had the minerals. DO NOT think that you are the ones who are stuck. You hold the upper hand because oil/gas co.'s need you to lease the mineral rights for any future drilling. Surface rights owners our the ones who so to speak are stuck. Get a Wv. oil/gas attorney and tell them what you want and before you do, go to sites on mineral leasing and get guidlines on what to ask for and what language needs to be added and deleted. Most good sites will have a check list to go by. Your mineral rights just did not crop up this year. They have been around for generations and they need to be protected for the next generation. You are making a good decesion with coming here and asking questions. This lease stuff will consume you if you let it. My advise is tell everyone involved to take it slow and think before you act on any matter. Do not fall to frustration that land agents put on you. They try every tactic in the book. It may be good you live in another state. That way you are not being bothered everyday with the "car salesman" tactics. Remember, get everyone on board you can that is an heir and hope they don't give in to the pressure. Money is oil/gases motive and they do not care about anything or anyone else. The bonus money will be paid as a paid up lease and the royality is what you need to get as much as you can. Ask for 18% gross with no deductions
Diane Hinchliff Hesse said:a
Great advice! We only own the mineral rights and the surface owners have already signed leases so I think we're sort of stuck. How would I know? Either way 90% of us, the ones known, have pretty much agreed that a lawyer is the only way to go. Especially where we're so far away.