DT - thanks for the advice and the bonus/royalty numbers. That helps other mineral owners know what to expect.
Diane - if you don't have an attorney already, I'm licensed in West Virginia. No pressure, of course. Best of luck!
I'll be in touch......
Anyone been contacted by oil/gas land agents lately? Since the Wv legistlature session is now over i would think they would be contacting everyone they could. The forced pooling/integration bill that the companies tried to shove through fizzled out and the oil/gas people did not like that. They were hoping to push mineral owners into a corner and get their minerals one way or another.
DT do I hear you! I knew nothing to begin with. I informed myself in numerous ways and asked the landman lots of questions. Some he just wouldn't answer. I think now that I got a newbie and he had to keep asking his superiors how to respond. I sent in tons of family info, did as good a job as their 'genealogy personnel' if not better. I do believe they only went after the easy ones, the ones over 60 in particular. Reading back over my extensive email records I see where I was told they don't need everyone to sign and they don't need to find everyone, they can get some contracts signed and then petition the rest to the court. Low and behold...this morning I'm informed that the landman was instructed to cease work on my file and it would be petitioned to the court. This after they sent out 3 contracts and were preparing another..all to the over 60 group, the easy marks. My last question which I had to ask 3 times before they did this was as to what happens to the 3 contracts if they're not correct. Based on the wrong number of heirs. All he would have had to say was that there is a clause in the contract to address this. (Thanks for that info Kyle) Personally I don't think he had much of a clue as to what the contracts say and I was asking too specific of questions. Kicker...he asked me relative to my question whether or not I thought he should rescind the contracts he'd already sent out! You can't make this up! Little did he know that I had already gathered most of the heirs and had instructed them to not sign a single thing until we all got contracts. So while we may now be in limbo on this I know I did the right things to protect my families interests. My thanks to this forum and to Kyle.
Kyle come in here pal. I have read about the petitioning to courts and Kyle could better explain that issue. I will not comment on it because I can only remember parts of the process so I will stay mum on it. I had the topic pertaining to petitioning the courts in my favorites for some time. I would have to search to find it but someone should chime in to bring it to you. The forced pooling/integration bill did not go through the senate this year. That law would have dealt with all the mineral heirs and was good for the companies more than the heirs.
I've been so busy with getting all the people and documents I haven't even looked at that. Now I can slow down and compile in a more controlled way. Spreadsheets and document collection. I've sure met lots of relatives I didn't know about and made a nice connections with people in Court Houses as well. Heard a ton of interesting stories as well. Forced pooling,have to go look at that and maybe I can do a bit on this petitioning thing as well. I would think the courts would be more fair?
D. *** Found the site*** The forced pooling/integration bill was put out there by oil/gas and they claimed it was to deal with missing heirs and such. The bill would allow them to basically go ahead and do the drill and worry about the missing heirs later if ever. Folks figured the missing heirs would eventually also mean heirs who did not or would not sign. Hence, they would force heirs into an "agreement" and only pay them a royality at lessor rates than others negotiated for. Here is a link to the court petition rulings. This may be the exact one but if not search that site and you will find it. http://www.legis.state.wv.us/wvcode/ChapterEntire.cfm?chap=55&a... Oh, D. I told you this stuff will consume you if you let it. Remember, live your life and do this as your hobby when you have the urge!!!
Thanks I'll check it out. The 'if ever' is what I think they would end up doing...nothing..why should they? Not a good bill at all.
DT...I am a consumate researcher with a voracious appetite for knowledge so this is just my kind of thing. It's just a bit more than a hobby. I also am a genealogist so it furthers me on that road. Their genealogists told me that they would share info with me but once they had mine I never heard from them again. Then Mr. landman tells me it's all proprietary. Liars!!!
Also, we had no idea that our Great Grandfather had anything so this was sort of just a little blessing. And I do mean little. I'm scrapping over a little over 28 acres. It's not the acreage that's important but the thrill of the battle for my family. I actually was having a good time. Well all except with the 70+ year olds. They are so hard to get through to. It's just so complicated for them.
Now off to look at that legislation. Ought to be easy compared to reading inheritance laws.
Well it is worse than reading Estate law. Wow. 7 years and you lose all claim to the rights. What this means to me is that if it was law and I hadn't been doing my genealogy they might not have found my great grandfather. They found him through my work and posts on genealogy message boards from several years ago. So they would have done their thing and seven years later we would be out of luck if we stumbled on it. My GGF was the only one that came out West and he never went back and his family in WV didn't know what happened to him. You're right this is not in the over all bet interest of the heirs.
Sounds a lot like us on the genealogy part. My wife had a book from her relatives as thick as a suitcase. Two land agents first came to our house with names that had been deceased for 30 yrs. We gave them some info and now I regret giving them a how do you do. They ask some of the dumbest questions and act like they are smart beyond comprehension. They never share anything that is helpful and use any info to sneak into a family members home like they own it. If I must say they prey on the good ol' Mountaineers Those 70+ are the folks they like to get signatures from. If you question the land agent, they ask you if you have a power of attorney for them. Was the site that I posted the correct one??
Yes it was. I sure think that's a bad piece of legislation and I'm glad they didn't pass it. Who's paying who? It may be difficult to find heirs but usually it's always possible with hard work. As for the ones that don't want anything to do with it...fine...they can give up their rights. Not only do they ask dumb questions but they selectively listen as well. How many times do you have to say....died as a minor? Reverts back to parents?
I'm now in contact with the Doddridge Court House...they wouldn't even give me the property legal description.
Diane
I need to start over a little.
Did you get a lease from the oil/gas co. to sign or just talked to them so far? Have them send you a lease and a map to look at. The lease will tell who boundaries your acreage. They have the map and the description of the property too ???
I had a landman say something like that (petitioning ) to me. He wanted a lease on a tract that my sister and I had 1/2 OGM for, and another family had the other 1/2. (Ritchie Co.) The others refused to do business with this man (I later found that they had good reason!) but the landman said something about if he had our 1/2, and some surrounding tracts, he could go to court to force the other family's 1/2.
No we never made it to that stage. All they did was go after the obvious, easy heirs and start to send their contracts out. I know they have all the info but they won't tell me....proprietary.
Interesting Nancy, if he had your 1/2 I'm not sure he could really 'force' anything. Man these guys are crooks...that's why we all need the services of a lawyer!
DT...they were, in my opinion, being a bit devious in that they wouldn't tell me much...all they wanted was for some contracts to be signed. And for all there 'we gotta have proof'. They offered a contract to my deceased brothers wife without hesitation. They made no attempt to get his death certificate or anything. She too was one of those over 60.
Diane, you said you are in contact with the Doddridge County Court House. Do you know who pays taxes on this property? If one party pays, and the property is listed as being owned by "John Smith heirs" or something, never having been split up, which is how it sounds, then as part of this process it would be good for each heir to get a tax bill for his/her portion (county assessor's office). My sister and I are lucky that we are the only heirs of our great grandfather who started all this, and the tax bills have come to the right people over the years. Trouble was a couple of times when several men bought property together, and somehow the tax was listed together, with one party paying. Eventually this party died, the heirs didn't know to keep paying taxes, my ancestor's heir (my grandfather) didn't know this was the way it was listed and eventually it was sold for taxes (the other people's heirs also being left out because they too didn't pay taxes they didn't know about.
Off topic, sorry, but important in those circumstances.
The stories and experience are always beneficial to here. I always find something in them to remember. Really to bad about the property lost to a tax sale. It could have happened to us had we owned surface rights as when my GGF came West he left everything behind. We found out about it only because Antero wants the lease. I'm not sure early on when I started this discussion if I mentioned it or not but we only have the mineral rights. The surface rights are held by a distant relative though. They seem to be reluctant to give me the legal description. So I need to hear what exactly the Court House needs and provide that. I do know her full name so maybe it won't be too difficult. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and data keeper so I like to have ALL the details. Sounds like it went pretty smoothly for you....glad to hear it.
I would try to get a copy of a lease for sure. All the info you are trying to get from the courthouse would be in it. May as well use the agents like they do everyone else. The agents may be trying to tie up your property so no other company can get a lease on it. Then they can come back later and try to get the rest to sign. They are interested only in tying up property in hopes of getting it all leased eventually. They pick the easy folks first and play the waiting game with the rest. If you can obtain a current plat map and you have the surface owners name, that might help.
Diane Hinchliff Hesse said:
DT...they were, in my opinion, being a bit devious in that they wouldn't tell me much...all they wanted was for some contracts to be signed. And for all there 'we gotta have proof'. They offered a contract to my deceased brothers wife without hesitation. They made no attempt to get his death certificate or anything. She too was one of those over 60.
Just heard from my distant relation back there...she's agreed to give me the legal description...mapping I can do. Our interest under some part of a 20 acre parcel. Anything is better than nothing. Two people got contracts that do contain the info. They're supposed to send me a copy. Of course they're 60 and 70 ish so who can say if they'll follow through. They sort of made it sound like 2 more got contracts but I have no address on one as she wants no family contact. The other one I'll check with in a few days. I can't believe how much I've learned from all the great people on this forum. I am very grateful. Thanks DT...
If you have the legal description you can get a copy of the tax map (should be part of the description) from the Assessor's office. You need the district as well. Is your relative living on the property? Either way she will also be approached about a surface lease, and if she isn't knowledgeable about that you can point her to the West Virginia Surface Owners Association which has a lot of information on its website. Also some info for royalty owners since some surface owners also own royalty rights. She should get an attorney if possible. The association has a certain amount of legal advice for surface owners, I think.
This is very interesting!
Did you find out if one of those relatives is paying property tax on the minerals or OGM (not sure how Doddridge words it)?
And if you were able to get a copy of the deed where the surface was sold... the assessor's office might have the deed book citation. I know somewhat how Ritchie works, not Doddridge. There is a lot of leasing and drilling in the northeast part of Ritchie, near Doddridge, and a lot over in Doddridge itself.
Diane Hinchliff Hesse said:
Just heard from my distant relation back there...she's agreed to give me the legal description...mapping I can do. Our interest under some part of a 20 acre parcel. Anything is better than nothing. Two people got contracts that do contain the info. They're supposed to send me a copy. Of course they're 60 and 70 ish so who can say if they'll follow through. They sort of made it sound like 2 more got contracts but I have no address on one as she wants no family contact. The other one I'll check with in a few days. I can't believe how much I've learned from all the great people on this forum. I am very grateful. Thanks DT...