I don't know what an OGM is. Yes, the relative is paying taxes on the property along with all the other relatives who own it with her. Surface owners. Tax map...hadn't thought of that. I do know that it's Doddridge County in the Avon area.This property has been in the family for generations so you wouldn't think a title search would be such a big deal...I just don't want to pay for it when it's already been done.
oil, gas, mineral?
Yes OGM is Oil, Gas and Mineral. That is the usual term in Ritchie. Tyler County uses Minerals I think. Don't know about others. An actual Royalty interest, while not unheard of, is rare in my experience. Sometimes in the old leases (from 1890s) 1/2 of the oil royalty interest was sold off but listed as 1/16 oil. Sometimes all the oil was sold to one party, and gas to another party. We have some of that. And sometimes "minerals" was listed in a deed along with oil and gas, sometimes not and was implied. In Ritchie, not much coal which is generally minerals I think. This can get complicated.
Surface description I think always includes County, District, Tax Map number (each district has separate numberings), parcel number, and acreage and maybe the watershed: 42 acres Bonds Creek, or something like that. There could be several different tracts of 42 acres along Bonds Creek so the need for the tax map and parcel numbers.
Out west they use section, township, and other things as the legal description, but in West Virginia it is a metes and bounds state, with the description on the deed something like Starting at a white oak, corner of Wilson's land, and going North 25 West 60 poles to an elm, ...
I get carried away, but this is interesting, important, and sometimes very challenging.
Re the title search: the companies are sometimes wrong, and sometimes (probably not your case) people sell things they never owned, such as saying they are selling the property in fee (surface and minerals) when in reality 50 years before, the oil was sold off. Things like that.
If you want to try some of this "long distance" I can tell you what I have had to do from out of town. Ritchie County has its deeds, leases, etc online since mid 1985 but before that you have to go there OR know names and approximated dates to search for your search target. If your ancestor was, for example, named Marsh and you know he lived there from 1820 to 1880 you could see if they would copy and sell you the index pages for Marsh for those years; might be 15 pages @$1 per page. But when you get the pages you could see what happened in that time period, when "your" ancestor acquired the property, and when he sold the surface retaining minerals (or whatever). Then you should have a deed book and page listing for these deeds, and could order those deeds, and see who he bought it from. Then order the index page for that name in the date range you want, etc. Some wild goose chases, etc.
Better stop this long winded post.
Hey R.W., welcome to our little Almost Heaven area of Wv. I know you can lend some great info to this discussion board and I appreciate all of the posts you have made. Thank you sir.
I agree with DT. Very interesting information. I'll keep in mind the differences and employ some of what you suggest in your post. Thanks
Nancy Mosley said:
Yes OGM is Oil, Gas and Mineral. That is the usual term in Ritchie. Tyler County uses Minerals I think. Don't know about others. An actual Royalty interest, while not unheard of, is rare in my experience. Sometimes in the old leases (from 1890s) 1/2 of the oil royalty interest was sold off but listed as 1/16 oil. Sometimes all the oil was sold to one party, and gas to another party. We have some of that. And sometimes "minerals" was listed in a deed along with oil and gas, sometimes not and was implied. In Ritchie, not much coal which is generally minerals I think. This can get complicated.
Surface description I think always includes County, District, Tax Map number (each district has separate numberings), parcel number, and acreage and maybe the watershed: 42 acres Bonds Creek, or something like that. There could be several different tracts of 42 acres along Bonds Creek so the need for the tax map and parcel numbers.
Out west they use section, township, and other things as the legal description, but in West Virginia it is a metes and bounds state, with the description on the deed something like Starting at a white oak, corner of Wilson's land, and going North 25 West 60 poles to an elm, ...
I get carried away, but this is interesting, important, and sometimes very challenging.
Re the title search: the companies are sometimes wrong, and sometimes (probably not your case) people sell things they never owned, such as saying they are selling the property in fee (surface and minerals) when in reality 50 years before, the oil was sold off. Things like that.
If you want to try some of this "long distance" I can tell you what I have had to do from out of town. Ritchie County has its deeds, leases, etc online since mid 1985 but before that you have to go there OR know names and approximated dates to search for your search target. If your ancestor was, for example, named Marsh and you know he lived there from 1820 to 1880 you could see if they would copy and sell you the index pages for Marsh for those years; might be 15 pages @$1 per page. But when you get the pages you could see what happened in that time period, when "your" ancestor acquired the property, and when he sold the surface retaining minerals (or whatever). Then you should have a deed book and page listing for these deeds, and could order those deeds, and see who he bought it from. Then order the index page for that name in the date range you want, etc. Some wild goose chases, etc.
Better stop this long winded post.
Thank you! I was just hoping to hang around and learn something.
I can tell you one thing, these two ladies are very persistent and I get a lot of info as they sort through this stuff. They have shown how you get things done with determination. I truly appreciate their sharing with everyone. Good night to all.
Thanks DT...I've learned a lot from you! I woke up this morning not feeling a bit down as I was yesterday. I felt as if I'd let everyone down who was trusting me. Today I'm ready to battle! I realize there is much I need to know now about this Court process. Do you get notified that it's going to happen? What exactly goes on? Do I use/need a lawyer to assist me? Do they need certified copies of documents? Hope not that cost's a lot of money. What happens if I disagree with the Courts decision? Who is initiating this Texhoma or Antero? This might just be worth a trip back East.
Diane, if it's a recorded document, usually an uncertifide copy bearing the instrument/recording/document whatever they call it at the recorders office will do because anybody can view/get their own copy from the recorders office.
Well I'll certainly check that out! Thanks
This is getting topic but there is a set of historic maps available from Central Drafting Inc in Parkersburg WV 26104 (921 - A Emerson Avenue) of "old farm maps" compiled by one of the oil companies around 1906 with the individual properties identified by owner, and if leased, the company who leased it. There are oil wells and gas wells placed on the properties also. Large scale. A few years ago I got the ones for Ritchie County, and just called. He has county sized maps, in 2 pieces total about 5 foot square, for $20. He said include 6% sales tax. For the individual sections (14 sections for Ritchie) it is $5 per section. It looks like Avon in Doddridge is in section L 18 but maybe in L19, or M 18 or M19. For a history buff, it is fascinating.
Diane, Kyle N. can give the particulars on how the court proceedings work when he gets back on the site and reads your initial post.
He's also my lawyer!
Well I'm certainly going to check that out....I love maps and these may be useful in addition. Thanks
Nancy Mosley said:
This is getting topic but there is a set of historic maps available from Central Drafting Inc in Parkersburg WV 26104 (921 - A Emerson Avenue) of "old farm maps" compiled by one of the oil companies around 1906 with the individual properties identified by owner, and if leased, the company who leased it. There are oil wells and gas wells placed on the properties also. Large scale. A few years ago I got the ones for Ritchie County, and just called. He has county sized maps, in 2 pieces total about 5 foot square, for $20. He said include 6% sales tax. For the individual sections (14 sections for Ritchie) it is $5 per section. It looks like Avon in Doddridge is in section L 18 but maybe in L19, or M 18 or M19. For a history buff, it is fascinating.
So if I understand you correctly it makes sense to just get the $20 whole map instead of sections since Avon could be in 4 possible sections. Sounds like a deal anyway.
Diane Hinchliff Hesse said:
Well I'm certainly going to check that out....I love maps and these may be useful in addition. Thanks
Nancy Mosley said:
This is getting topic but there is a set of historic maps available from Central Drafting Inc in Parkersburg WV 26104 (921 - A Emerson Avenue) of "old farm maps" compiled by one of the oil companies around 1906 with the individual properties identified by owner, and if leased, the company who leased it. There are oil wells and gas wells placed on the properties also. Large scale. A few years ago I got the ones for Ritchie County, and just called. He has county sized maps, in 2 pieces total about 5 foot square, for $20. He said include 6% sales tax. For the individual sections (14 sections for Ritchie) it is $5 per section. It looks like Avon in Doddridge is in section L 18 but maybe in L19, or M 18 or M19. For a history buff, it is fascinating.
So I'm asking him for a Doddridge County map....you are in Ritchie and got one for that county.
Diane Hinchliff Hesse said:
So if I understand you correctly it makes sense to just get the $20 whole map instead of sections since Avon could be in 4 possible sections. Sounds like a deal anyway.
Diane Hinchliff Hesse said:Well I'm certainly going to check that out....I love maps and these may be useful in addition. Thanks
Nancy Mosley said:
This is getting topic but there is a set of historic maps available from Central Drafting Inc in Parkersburg WV 26104 (921 - A Emerson Avenue) of "old farm maps" compiled by one of the oil companies around 1906 with the individual properties identified by owner, and if leased, the company who leased it. There are oil wells and gas wells placed on the properties also. Large scale. A few years ago I got the ones for Ritchie County, and just called. He has county sized maps, in 2 pieces total about 5 foot square, for $20. He said include 6% sales tax. For the individual sections (14 sections for Ritchie) it is $5 per section. It looks like Avon in Doddridge is in section L 18 but maybe in L19, or M 18 or M19. For a history buff, it is fascinating.
Diane, I forgot to say it is different scales. If you want the large scale, get the separate pieces, smaller scale for whole map. You can Google for the phone #. Lots of fun. I got the individual Ritchie pieces, 14 total. We inherited things around the county and I wasn’t sure where I needed. He said Doddridge 2 piece small scale full county map is $20 plus 6% tax.
Thanks. So they call these Plat maps back there?
These are called “Old Farm Maps” because of the farm names showing leased and unleased acreage, etc. As I understand it, a “plat” map would be for an individual tract, sometimes when larger acreage was being divided. Then there are well permit plats, showing the lease acreage, ususally also surrounding surface owners. Then there are tax maps. Each West Va county has tax districts which have several to many maps. Each map has maybe 25 parcels (varies). The county, district, tax map number, and parcel number are all part of the tax description. All different but related.
Great! A Plat map here is a Township, Range, Section map or a piece of it.