I'm new to this forum and discussion, but have already gained some great information by the many comments and questions here! Nice to find others with similar situations.
A few months ago a landman from Antero Resources sent prepared leases to my brother and myself regarding some mineral rights we inherited in Doddridge County. He was rather pushy to get them signed and returned, but they looked like terrible leases that could have actually been liability problems for us down the road, especially if things went wrong, damage to the property, etc.
So of course we took them to a lawyer who said they were absolute junk and we'd be crazy to sign them. I informed the landman of this and he immediately responded "have your lawyer send his requests." So, our attorney drafted completely new leases and sent them. Several weeks went by with no response and when he was finally able to reach the landman, he was told the leases were now "on hold" because the property is really more abundant for Utica shale, but Antero was currently drilling for Marcellus and they didn't need ours.
We feel this is obviously a tactic - but are more concerned that the company may just be moving forward without our permission. We both live in different states, though I'm less than 2 hours away, so we are wondering if perhaps they're gambling we won't find out and are pushing forward with plans to drill there anyway. Or maybe they already have, I don't know.
Has this happened to anyone else? And can someone advise me on how to find out if they are on this property? I only have parcel numbers, not a physical address.
You were smart not to sign the initial lease. It is the land man's job to offer what you might take and to offer it in a way that is best for the company he represents--not to offer what anything is actually worth or to do so in a way that would protect your interests. So, good call.
It is unlikely, in my opinion, that the land man has the authority to approve what your lawyer wrote, so that might be the reason the land man speaks of the lease as being "on hold." Negotiation requires patience.
It is also my opinion that it is doubtful that any company would risk removing gas from your property without your having signed to give permission. That sort of thing being done with horizontal drilling (which doesn't require "being on your property,"as far as the surface, as I understand it) would likely make the national evening news if any company got caught doing anything like that on purpose, I would think. So that's probably one of the only things you DON'T need to worry about. Negotiate in good faith and be patient and reasonable and understand that it is all business, not personal.
Thanks for posting your question. We all learn from one another here. We all need to support one another during this land-grab stage, if it goes anything like it has in Ohio, PA, and other WV counties. That's for sure.
Thanks, Jeff, that makes sense! I would hope companies wouldn't do such a thing, but there have been interesting developments around my neck of the woods that don't seem entirely on the up and up either. We're waiting to see what happens, just thought I'd ask if anyone else had a similar experience.
In all fairness to Antero, their standard lease is the most friendly to mineral owners that I've seen. But that's not saying much.
Most likely their legal department is reviewing the leases your lawyer created. That can take some time, mainly because their legal department is busy, not because your lease is ridiculous.
One of the best negotiating tactics I've seen with oil and gas companies is to just say no and wait for them to respond, whether it's that minute or months later. Be patient. They're not in as big a hurry as they say.
These companies make mistakes all the time. They're under-staffed human organizations, and they're in a big rush to acquire as much property and develop as many wells as possible in as short a time as possible. (Yes, that contradicts my last paragraph, but both are true, I promise.) Even when they're telling you the truth, they're making mistakes. So it's best to follow the Russian proverb used so much by Ronald Reagan, "trust, but verify."
. . . best to follow the Russian proverb used so much by Ronald Reagan, "trust, but verify."
Well said.
If only there were better public provisions allowing access to reliable, timely, specific local information about activities near a property so that the owners could have easy access to trustworthy, verifiable information!
The waiting to here from them varies from weeks to months. If you had a couple hundred acres they would be courting you on a regular basis. If your 4 acres is part of a larger tract you will here from them at some point. We had them calling us every week until they pushed my wife's wrong button. The one agent backed off and another called to try to patch up relations. We are not happy with them and could care less at this time if we lease or not. We have been dealing since last Dec. and we still have not got much to talk about. The thing that makes things worse is our lack of compassion when you are dealing with such dishonest people. I commend you for not signing that crap lease and if everyone would get language changes in their lease, you all would benefit. Those agents are all about getting your signature and will go to any length and say anything to obtain it. When they flash the cash, that makes a lot of heirs jump at the easy money. Some heirs did not even know they had mineral rights, so they could care less what happens to your percentage. They see it as quick cash and they sign a lease that has no protection in it. Not good! Kyle N. gives very good professional advise and we are lucky to have him on the local county sites. Thanks Kyle
I'm trying hard to change things for mineral and surface owners here in West Virginia. I'm hoping to drive up prices for oil and gas leases, and change expectations so that oil and gas companies have to offer better terms because all the mineral and surface owners they deal with know not to sign a standard lease form. It's a big job, but I enjoy doing it, and I'm making some money at it, too.
Kyle, I have never read any comments, unless I missed them, on taxes. Have you ever heard of the companies helping pay the property taxes if they drill on any property. I have read that clause but have you seen it put in any lease? That should be a leasing point because your property taxes will surely go up if they hit a good well. The county would then assess a higher property value and raise the taxes and the owners would be left to pay. The oil/gas company stands to make a lot of money so they should be made to pay up on the tax increase. Any input on this issue would be a plus for sure.
I did actually read the entire lease - a few times. I have no legal training and it was obvious to even me that this was a horrendous lease: $400 TOTAL lease payment to cover 5 years - less than $100 a year??!! And royalties were 15%, BUT that was NET, not GROSS, so they could have sent just anything and we'd never know the difference. Our attorney has been working with many folks in Ohio on mineral rights leases here and he completely re-wrote the thing.
J Krisch, I recommend you never let a landman think he is the only one you are dealing with. If you can find another oil company that is active near your area or an independant investor, someone/ anyone whose name you can throw out, the landman may think he is not the only game in town and if you lease to someone else, those acres may be lost forever to his principle. If a landman knows he is the only game in town, he knows you will struggle and try to negotiate but eventually you will wear yourself down. It's the exact opposite of the mineral owner negotiating by not responding to an offer. This is business, would you expect any other business to flourish without advertising? Do some research, make some calls, list your minerals at the bottom of homepage of this site and any others where you find you can. You don't have to and it probably isn't in your best interest to wait for a response from Antero. Take out an ad in the paper local to your minerals. It you were trying to lease a house, would you just wait for someone to stop by and ask if you would rent it out? At the very least you would put a sign out, wouldn't you?
I may be wrong ???, but I believe these companies are sending out leases to mineral owners who live out of town and offering low ball bonus money. I know of a couple out of state heirs who jumped the gun and signed a lease. We had been negotiating back home and had made some progress. I was told she and another member never got anything close in bonus money that we had already had on paper. If they are offering such low figures I hope they get a flat no every time they try to pull this on people. They are trying to tie up so much property, they will try anything to get a signature. The thing is, if a company gets a couple signatures, that puts the other heirs in a predicament. Other competing companies do not want to get involved if some of the heirs have already signed. The other heirs can still negotiate a good lease but it will be more than likely dealing with just one company. That is why they get the easy signers and then they will come back later and try to get the rest. (My opinion only). That is why it is important to stay strong and sign as one family and get a better deal. Take it slow and be patient and ask lots of questions on this site. Anything asked here is important to your particular situation.
Well said DT. I sure wish our relations in WV hadn't jumped on it so soon. But then my little family group doesn't hold a very large number of the whole acres. Playing the waiting game here, compiling records, researching and waiting for this court thing.
D. You may not hold a lot of acreage but, the lease has you on it and your small amount is part of the whole tract. The lease does not say you own down by the creek or up on the hill. It says you own x amount of the whole tract. You are as important as the person who owns all around you. Since you live out of town I would make sure the company is not trying the "lost heir" thing.
D. My wife and you would have a chunk of change if you got paid for the info you supplied. They would be still out there checking the books and may be up to 1950 by now if it had not been for your info. They came in here kissing up and Mam this and that and then went sneaking out to reap on their new found info. Those jerks got an ear full later on and we do not care to pursue anything with them at this moment. I have to remember it's just business and they are just trying to make a living. I hope they end up going back to wherever they came from with nothing but the clothes they came here with. I am surprised someone has not provoked the Wv article #1 on them. Thought shalt take a butt kickin for being a crook.
Amen! I think I'd like your wife. They did indeed use me for info. Once they had it they didn't follow through with all the sharing they promised and now neither of the 'genealogists' will talk to me at all. It appears I'm way better at their job then they are but then they aren't paid for accuracy and full data gathering. I am curious as to what they really found and how they used it. But it's 'proprietary'. They were going to give my deceased brother's family the entire portion coming through my dad. How odd, they wouldn't tell me based on what. I'm the only one with his death cert, he died intestate and I know they never talked to his estranged wife because I did. And I never gave them his address and absolutely no one knew about that. So I have to think they're not very honest individuals as well.
Ok, so we're on hold and supposedly headed for court. I haven't found much about that procedure anywhere but an hoping it's a tactic. Anyway I think I read that it's Antero that does the court stuff not Texhoma. So if I wanted to contact Antero I find two WV offices. One in Mount Clare and one in Ellenboro. They seem to be on both sides of Doddridge County. Any thoughts on who to contact should I decide to do that in a couple of months?